AVCANADA

"Smithville traffic this is Cessna GDUH turning left base runway 25 full stop Smithville."

Third, you already designated what airport you were at at the start.

This is 15 seconds of wasted radio chatter.

It is not 15 sec of wasted radio traffic. It is what I teach and what I practice. Many traffic calls get stepped on and for example you hear "CRACKLE CRACKLE WHINE urning left base 25". Now you have no idea if this traffic is at your airport or some other airport sharing the frequency. If You had put the airport name at the end of the transmission, a practice that lengthens the call by maybe 2 whole seconds, then everybody will know either to ignore the call or decide whether a reply is necessary. This is good airmanship and something I wish more pilots would do.

I have to ask BPF. When is a good idea not a good idea? Our company , and I suspect other companies are constantly and insiduously mutated, by well meaining pilots who use perfect logic to come to the totally wrong conclusions. It is enough of a problem , that it is a madated part of the check pilots report to note SOP/procedure deviations so that they can be analyzed to determine if the SOPs should be changed, or action taken to bring everyone back into line.

One only has to look at a typcial FTU to see checklists that would impress Wilkopedia, but are not relevant for the particular aircraft they are being used in. Training exercises that dont address the required training objectives, but are in some instructor's opinion, importnd and should be included.
Or those gosh , so much fun, simulations like a forced approach done in cloud (that is one of my favorites)
So the question I have in response to your post that you teach something and you feel it is important, is who in your organization independently looks at your opinion and teaching to confirm it valid, and then implements the procedure with all the instructors, or has a quiet chat with you about it?
A good idea is not always a good idea. And just to be clear, this is not relateing to your particular post's idea, but the concept of "I think it is a good idea, so I am doing it" philosophy.

Well, thank you for the brief resume, but that is really not relevant to my question, which you did answer.

You see, I have a a fair amount of experience too. In fact I pretty much had 23 years experience when you started flying. and I still get some dumb ideas about how to do things better, as do many of the very experienced Captains and First Officers I work with. It is why we welcome quality audit people, to look at what we are doing and occassionaly say ..great idea..or give your head a shake.

Without that, we are vicitim to our own perceptions, and despite your extensive expereience, I dont think you may necessarily be immune to the problem.

I can say for certain , that the tthe FTU's that have trained our new pilots certainly are not. In some cases it is almost having to teach them the basics all over again.

In any event, my intent was not to question your credentials or experience, but to question the whole business of unilaterally deciding what is the best way to do something...if you dont think that is a good idea or necessary then there is little to debate.

I'm with BPF on this one. Nothing pisses me off more than moronic radio calls.
"Traffic in the Upper Arm Pit area, ABC inbound from the south. Upper Arm Pit in ten minutes" That's IT. With the destination FIRST in the transmission, everybody else can now totally ignore the rest of the transmission. With ABC form the south, in 10 minutes, every knows that if THEY won't be there in 10 minutes, they can ignore the rest of the transmission. Forget using lame terms like "conflicting traffic, please advise....." Who the FAK else would advise? and .."on 126.7....." C'MON MAN! If they heard you....they were ON 126.7, now weren't they??

I just love these long winded traffic advisories. You know who you are.

AND AND AND WHY oh, WHY do so many of you twits start a transmission with "AND"????? Was grade SIX really that tough on you?

Why would centre give me traffic at 3 o'clock when it's only 12:30? How do they know I'll have traffic in two and a half hours?

End of simulated rant!

"Smithville traffic this is Cessna GDUH turning left base runway 25 full stop Smithville."
First...there is no requirement to call turning base at an uncontrolled airport with an MF.

Second... you don't state intentions on the type of landing at this point because really, you don't know.

Third, you already designated what airport you were at at the start.

Circuits are safer for everybody if we know that other traffic is doing a low and over,

I wonder if some of this comes out of instructors having to pick their battles. I don't mean that as a cop out for instructors, but I can imagine a student who makes multiple errors and an instructor has to kind of 'prioritize' which ones are more important to deal with. I know when I'm learning, if someone points out every mistake I make I might not be able to fix them all. I could see the 'any conflicting please advise' and the 'simulated cross-country' going pretty far down on the totem pole, as they could be categorized as more annoying rather than affecting the safety of the flight, etc.

I know we all rant on the instructor, but I could see this as being a fairly difficult balance to maintain, and a task that could drive them to insanity (biting their tongue when a student makes a minor error, fully knowing a bigger one is coming along).

Well here is one. Our company has worked with two Canadian FTUs in the past to provide the training we wanted.
We did have some problems with regard to hiring their graduates unless we were able to vet those who came into the program, as the flying skills are an important part, but not the whole of the hiring profile. And we would not agree to them advertising that we would hire their graduates.
The second issue was that neither FTU had a real quality control program in place, and essentlally how students were taught was up the individual instructor without any real progress checks being made. they were teaching to the TC flight test standards.
We ended up making an arrangement with a non-Canadian FTU, and sponsor students in their program so we effectively make the selection of our future pilots, as well as having a say in how they are trained, and progress evaluations. It seems to be working out so far.

Having said that, we do look carefully at where a pilot got their training, and favor several FTUs, as well as not hiring graduates from some of the others. Unfortunately the training quality is not typically consistient over time, so our list is alway being revised. We also simple refuse to hire experienced pilots who have worked for certain companies..We like to think that their working for those companies tells us about their moral character, though we have no stats to back that up..
As an aside, there are some governement sponsered colleges that have roughly a 50% first year failure rate. What does that tell you about their ability to select people? You would think that in a few years they would have done some work and refined their selection process, but for reasons that escape me, they do not seem to have considered this an issue.


In any event, the bitching and whining , while generally satisfying, might also be a hint to some FTUs to review how their overall training program is conducted, and have some CFI's start to do what a CFI is actually supposed to be doing.

My rant, bitching and whining is over. Back to the thread topic.

Students are not born with the impulse to waste radio time with the stupid "conflicting traffic please advise" comment every time they make a radio call, their instructor told them to do it .

I am very happy to see you putting your money where your mouth is, I wish more operators followed your example.

.."on 126.7....." C'MON MAN! If they heard you....they were ON 126.7, now weren't they??