buying a training airplane...

Pilot_adam · Post by **Pilot_adam** » Fri May 13, 2005 4:22 am

Hello everybody..
This is my first post in this forum,i think i will have to admit that i became addicted to this forum since i first found it ....
Fellow pilots..
I am a new student pilot getting my first few hours at the Hamilton flying club in southern Ontario and in my way of reaching my life's dream..at the age of 22 and hoping to finish my training(CPL,instructor rating) before my 24th birthday facing what the most of yous have faced,,the high cost of flying,even though i am getting my training at a very low price comparing to the market ($125 for dual, $85 for solo) i am still struggling to afford flying twice a week at the minimums.
What i was thinking of is buying a a small training airplane like a Cessna 152 or a Piper with a mortgage (collateral) and start building my hours untile i am done so i can sell it and get some of the money back... would that be cheaper???!!!!!
I thought instead of paying close to a 100$ an hour after the Tax i will own something and i will be able to sell it after i finish my training to get some money back...
Now the part that i am don't know about it the other fees for hangar space rental and maintenance...
Anyhow let me know what you guys think and if u have any advise..
Notice: please let me know if there is anybody intrested in the GTA area..
Thanks alot
Adam

mcrit · Post by **mcrit** » Fri May 13, 2005 5:55 am

Hi Adam
It might not be a bad idea to get your own a/c to do your training on. A 150 can be had for ~$30000 (You can get them cheaper if you look around). Aircraft tend to hold their resale value much better than a car. Insurance costs will depend on the value of the a/c. I would guess that you are looking at $2000 year. COPA has a program to insure its members, but be advised that the advertised rates are liability only. If you get a loan to buy the a/c the bank will want full insurance.
I would not advise you to rent hangar space. Get an outside tie down at a small airfield, much cheaper, (Some of the small fields around the GTA don't really keep track of their out door parking, I've seen guys park for free for several months.)
The main place were you will save money with your own a/c is the instructor rate. The school will charge you about $60, a freelance instructor can be had for much less.
The downside of owning your own a/c is that you will be responsible for maintainence. You can take care of routine stuff like oil changes, but if anyting big breaks, it comes out of your pocket

Pugster · Post by **Pugster** » Fri May 13, 2005 8:16 am

Adam;

Not a bad idea to explore - you will really experience savings once you start flying the "time building" portion of your commercial...and will have the option at the end to tool around for a bit to build your time up at a decent price.

I'd also explore the option of entering a fractional ownership on a light airplane. I know of several guys that do this - and you can get in for a lot less than you'd think (I know of one trainer in good shape that can be had for $9000 - and then flown at $50 / hour wet). The "hourly" charge then includes a buffer for maintenance, insurance, etc. Not a bad way to go if the group of guys or girls has a system that works.

As far as the instructor goes, I'd expect to pay $50 per hour although you can probably find one out there for less. When I freelance, that's generally what I charge - but if I was paid in cash I'd drop it down a bit (no paperwork, no hassles, no taxes

).

Best of luck

Peter

Tango01 · Post by **Tango01** » Fri May 13, 2005 8:28 am

Yeah @#$! taxes and all those poor bastards that pay them. How dare they!

just another pilot · Post by **just another pilot** » Fri May 13, 2005 8:38 am

That is how I would have done it. Better yet, see if you can find a partner on the a/c. Then find a freelance instructor or one who is willing to train on the side. Don't go through a flight school to find one, because they will want their cut(whatever that is).

bogey · Post by **bogey** » Fri May 13, 2005 10:53 am

I looked into it too a few years ago.

The thing that scared me off was the insurance.

The rates then were super high for pilots with less than 500hrs.

Also, make sure the engine has plenty of time left on it.

Cat Driver · Post by **Cat Driver** » Fri May 13, 2005 3:07 pm

(no paperwork, no hassles, no taxes ).

I just can't believe that anyone would try and work in the underground economy...

Don't you people care about feeding your politicians who work so hard for you?

just another pilot · Post by **just another pilot** » Fri May 13, 2005 3:26 pm

I would suggest smuggling flight training - but from where?

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Fri May 13, 2005 5:17 pm

Adam, all good advice. I wish I had of done it that way. Also llok into a PA28-140 (piper cherokee) there are very reliable, but like tanks, and have solid engines.

Buy it, use it, sell it and pray it doesn't break down in the interm.

Cheers.

Dyck Hertz · Post by **Dyck Hertz** » Fri May 13, 2005 6:04 pm

Cat Driver wrote:I just can't believe that anyone would try and work in the underground economy...

who gives man......im just happi to sea the pikture of that kute little kitty kat... everytyme i see that kat it put a smyle on me face cuz it thinks its people and wants to drive a car: then i thkink "hey weight a minute how can that kat drive if doenst't have a lycense?"

Dyck Hertz · Post by **Dyck Hertz** » Fri May 13, 2005 6:11 pm

King Air Guy wrote:Adam, all good advice. I wish I had of done it that way. Also llok into a PA28-140 (piper cherokee) there are very reliable, but like tanks, and have solid engines.

i rented one @ Guelph airport with my freind. i wuz the coplot. wen i wuz looking at my freind doing the walkabout i wuz looking for the "Massey-Ferguson" sticker on the side. the pa28.140 looks like a tank, drives like a tractor and glydes like a set of car keys

KAG · Post by **KAG** » Sat May 14, 2005 9:08 am

...but handles a crosswind like no ones business.

Cheers.

Tango01 · Post by **Tango01** » Sat May 14, 2005 1:17 pm

Copilot on a PA28?

Dyck Hertz · Post by **Dyck Hertz** » Sat May 14, 2005 4:03 pm

Tango01 wrote:Copilot on a PA28?

What I meant is that I was sitting in the right seat and went up just as a friend, not logging any time....

...i stil kant get over that cute litle kitty kat who can drive....like crap i no some gurls who cannt drive but are just as furry

Tango01 · Post by **Tango01** » Sat May 14, 2005 7:11 pm

Not logging any time??? Just Kidding man!

meow · Post by **meow** » Sun May 15, 2005 9:19 am

Dyck Hertz wrote:
...i stil kant get over that cute litle kitty kat who can drive....like crap i no some gurls who cannt drive but are just as furry

Hey Dyck
You're right i know some dudes that can't drive but they are furry ER than that kitty kat...

x-wind · Post by **x-wind** » Sun May 15, 2005 11:34 pm

Good thread.

The Doctor that did my medical suggested that I look for A/C that does'nt get much use and ask the owner if I could rent off him to build time. Sounds like a good idea but might be hard to find the right owner.

If that doesnt work for me I will look into buying a trainer. But with about 4 guys I figure.

aero-singidunum · Post by **aero-singidunum** » Mon May 16, 2005 7:59 am

See if you can talk to some of guys that have plane, buy block hours, might be way cheaper. When you buy plane, you do not now exact reason why is sold

or why is that old plane having bad avionics and brand new paint job.
If you do that, do prepurchase inspection, you may save $

down on the road.

Tango01 · Post by **Tango01** » Mon May 16, 2005 8:04 am

All fun and games boys, but go get an insurance quote before you buy block time from some dude or decide to buy an airplane.

Pilot_adam · Post by **Pilot_adam** » Mon May 16, 2005 8:18 am

Hello you all...
Thanks alot guys for the advise that you guys gave me...
I have learned alot from your posts and became aware of few things that did not come to my mind...
Anyways ,it is still an idea and i am stuying the operation cost for the aircraft since i have 0 knowledge of aircrafts mechanics ...(I don't even know how to change my car oil) my back ground was in computers where i have a 3 years diploma in software engineering but i am sure it is not for me ...I am sick of setting infront of my monitor for 16 hours a day i am sick of having to look for a new job everytime my contract comes to an end...It is just not for me ... i have always wanted to become a pilot and here i come ....
I have been checking some websites to find a trainer a/c Cessna speacially since it is more economical ,check http://www.planequest.com/operationcosts/default.asp
I have recieved some PMs from some of the members here in avcanada who are intrested in the idea ...
I need the time to plan for it and to study my options...
Thank you all guys
Adam