Cancellation Reasons

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AuxBatOn
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Cancellation Reasons

#1 Post by AuxBatOn » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:21 pm

Quick question for the AC and Jazz folks: is it common to cancel for weather more than 7 hours ahead of a takeoff time?

I received a flight cancellation notice on one of my legs today at 1400 when the flight was scheduled for takeoff at 2130. The issue was apparently freezing rain at the departure airport. Other interesting fact is that other flights form the same airline were scheduled and took off to go to another destination and come back in the same timeframe we were supposed to takeoff.

The reason given by customer service: weather. The customer service rep also slipped that Jazz had issues filling their lines because of manning today but then insisted it was for weather. Is it a deliberate attempt at deception to avoid having to honor their tarriff?
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Re: Cancellation Reasons

#2 Post by BE20 Driver » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:34 pm

I don't work for big red.

Weather can have an issue down the line that you might not see. If for example, YVR was fogged in first thing in the morning and the airplane was unable to leave, it would cause a ripple affect for the rest of the day. That plane might have been scheduled for 5 legs today and maybe the last YYZ-YYC, might have to be cancelled as it would be too late, or they might run out of crew duty etc.

There are a number of factors that would got into deciding to cancel.
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Re: Cancellation Reasons

#3 Post by Ah_yeah » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:52 pm

When wx events occur (be they forecast or already happened) they can cause a/c, crews and ATC slots to be in short supply. It may be CAVU the moment you got the cxl notice but the root cause could still be weather related. It can take days to normalize and operation. For example, if ceiling in LGA is low enough, atc slots get cut. At that point, operators have to modify their schedules to fit the slots they are given.
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Cancellation Reasons

#4 Post by AuxBatOn » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:02 pm

SInce they have Dash-8s flying in and out of Montreal at the same time, isn't it an operational decision to priorityze other flights?
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Re: Cancellation Reasons

#5 Post by altiplano » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:33 pm

What was the routing? Flight number?
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AuxBatOn
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Re: Cancellation Reasons

#6 Post by AuxBatOn » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:46 am

YUL-YBG (JZA8686)

There was a YUL-YVO-YUL flight that went.
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billgeno
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Re: Cancellation Reasons

#7 Post by billgeno » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:43 am

AuxBatOn wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:46 am
YUL-YBG (JZA8686)

There was a YUL-YVO-YUL flight that went.
Was the crew for your specific flight there for the intended departure time or in time for a reasonable delay? How about the equipment itself?

The reason I ask is because the Operations team for your chosen airline may have foreseen that either was not available to accomplish the flight and it's possible that cancelling yours may have had the greatest reduction in downline impact to the overall business.

Regarding the reasoning behind the cancelation of the flight in their system, at the front line, you may only see that the aircraft was not there, or the crew is not available to operate your flight, which is why it might lead you to question their justification and tariff rules, however the root cause for the inability to service that one flight could have been upline weather.

IROPS are certainly a pain.
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Re: Cancellation Reasons

#8 Post by AuxBatOn » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:48 am

No equipment or crew. The flight was cancelled 7 hrs before boarding.
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Re: Cancellation Reasons

#9 Post by PostmasterGeneral » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:56 am

I can tell you that no matter what the reason may be, Jazz does not have authority to cancel flights. We can delay then and delay them until crews and equipment become available if this is the case, but only the customer (Air Canada) can actually make the decision to cancel the flight.
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Canuck1988
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Re: Cancellation Reasons

#10 Post by Canuck1988 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:11 am

Also, without looking at any weather out east today, just a number of observations for you to take into account:

YUL-YVO (you said that flight went) is not quite in the same direction as YUL-YBG. There could be different weather affecting east/west from Montreal.

The crew /equipment could be affected down the line, in which operations (together with AC) determined well in advance, the would not have the resources for the flight. A good example is the crew currently in YBG is stuck there due to weather. They don't want to send more planes/crews there, because then they would have MORE of a problem.

Again, without my knowledge of the weather today, sometimes operations has to prioritize flights with what they are given because of weather. What they are given, meaning, slots, equipment, crew. Sometimes they will have to purge these flights ahead of time, to inact a plan to start recouping their cancellations, sometimes combining flights on bigger aircraft, or half empty flights to full flights etc.

Good luck getting to YBG!
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Re: Cancellation Reasons

#11 Post by Level Change » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:26 am

Quite often it is the airport authority that says "hey bad weather cometh, we cannot deal with the capacity, you must reduce your schedule." So basically, the airline has to "streamline" the schedule in advance of a known weather event because the airport cannot handle it. Your airport improvement fee dollars hard at work.
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rudder
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Re: Cancellation Reasons

#12 Post by rudder » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:34 am

Several years ago there was a major weather event that stranded hundreds (thousands?) of passengers at a major CDN airport.

The argument was made by the regulator that the cancellations were predictable and that the airlines should have been proactive with flight cancellations and given passenger notice.

That is the reason for advance flight cancellations. It is now considered an obligation under the licence issued by the CTA.
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Re: Cancellation Reasons

#13 Post by rob-air » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:11 am

Maybe a bit farfetched but lets say you have a flight/route with few bookings...... Its going to cost you quite a bit to operate that flight. Now what would be the most acceptable reason to cancel that non profit generating flight....

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Re: Cancellation Reasons

#14 Post by Go Guns » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:32 am

Quite often it is the airport authority that says "hey bad weather cometh, we cannot deal with the capacity, you must reduce your schedule." So basically, the airline has to "streamline" the schedule in advance of a known weather event because the airport cannot handle it. Your airport improvement fee dollars hard at work.
The airport authority, or Nav Canada? I believe the way it works is that weather is, or is forecasted to, affect(ing) an airport. A conference call is held including all all affected parties. Nav Canada reduces system capacity, and the airlines are forced to share the leftover capacity. I’m not 100% on the specifics of it, but I don’t think, in Canada, the airport authorities reduce traffic due to weather. That said, they could close a runway for snow removal, which forces Nav Canada’s hand.
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