Air Canada Pay

Discuss topics relating to Air Canada.

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Caly
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Air Canada Pay

Post by Caly » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:33 am

I don't know what is going on up there, but seriously? 4th year pay at $80/hr Canadian? Is this for real? Someone please tell me Airlinepilotcentral.com is wrong. This is a complete insult to the industry. I'm not even sure what bottom feeder airline in the States to compare that to, because no one pays that low. This is worse than the regionals. Whoever negotiated this should be ashamed of themselves. Talk about holding up and coming Canadian pilots hostage due to lack of options? What a joke.
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FOD_Vacuum
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by FOD_Vacuum » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:20 am

Someone come back from the sandbox? Welcome to Canadian aviation, where the pay is total crap compared to the rest of the world. Don’t forget the four year flat pay of 55k... woohoo!
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CZBBYYZPilot
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by CZBBYYZPilot » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:08 am

Edited.
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indieadventurer
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by indieadventurer » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:22 am

Here’s the Air Canada agreement so you can look for yourself, it's section 12.03 I believe. http://negotech.labour.gc.ca/eng/agreem ... pdf#page52

It’s not 4 years of 55k. Currently year 4 FO is 83.80/hr. Not defending it, just clarifying it.
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Xander
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by Xander » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:33 am

And it’s not changing anytime soon.

Each time I go for recurrent sim, there’s a lineup of guys in suits waiting to interview.

Guys litteraly step on each other to come here. And I don’t blame them.
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danield
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by danield » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:08 am

Year 1 60.06
Year 2 65.67
Year 3 74.84
Year 4 83.80

All subject to 2% increase annually.

Yes pretty terrible however bonuses for new hires under 4 years averaging around 8,000. With a bit of overtime very easy to get to $100k your first few years.

Year 5 depending on your equipment it can range from $95.61(EMJ FO) to $159.01 (777 FO). Yields $108k-$182k approximately.
All FO positions available after 1-2 years. Junior Captains going to under 2 years at a rate of $204.1.

Again, not great but wages in Canada are abysmal to begin with. Can't think of anywhere else in Canada you can fly an airplane for this much. Wages need to increase everywhere else (WJ, SW, Swoop, Flair) for these numbers to ever have a chance at reaching industry standard.
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:14 am

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Dry Guy
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by Dry Guy » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:22 pm

I mean he's not wrong. Year 3 at AC is the best paying pilot job I've even had and I've been a professional pilot for 15 years previously. It's a Canada wide problem.
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Hangry
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by Hangry » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:04 pm

AC pilots will end up in aribitration sooner than later. How can they demand "industry standard" (even close to US carriers) when the rest of Canada is willing to work for way less garbage wages for airline work.

It is absolutely up to the other carriers to step up their game.

Ac is getting dragged down and has been for years. Look in the mirror.
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:20 pm

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Celtic1
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by Celtic1 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:34 pm

It's a race to the bottom and pilots are not to blame. If we want to work, we have to take the jobs available. Previously, there was an abundance of qualifued pilots in Canada. Today it is a different world and we should be demanding more. Pretty sad when a starting pilot at Jazz has to work 5 years tp get the same pay that was paid by Jazz in the 2000's for year 1! That being said, 40k was still not great in 2000. This is unacceptable that bus drivers in major cities earn 60-70k upon hiire and professional pilots earn 30-55k at any of the canadoan airlines. This needs to change if we want to be a "profession."
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:41 pm

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Hangry
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by Hangry » Sat Nov 09, 2019 3:12 pm

schnitzel2k3 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:20 pm
Hangry wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:04 pm
AC pilots will end up in aribitration sooner than later. How can they demand "industry standard" (even close to US carriers) when the rest of Canada is willing to work for way less garbage wages for airline work.

It is absolutely up to the other carriers to step up their game.

Ac is getting dragged down and has been for years. Look in the mirror.
Sorry, no.

Air Canada flies the heaviest metal, has the largest fleet, and is the only flag bearing carrier in Canada. You are at the head of the Canadian industry. Every other company in Canada is pegged at Air Canada's current wage scale. What's the starting wage on any 705 machine in Canada? About the same as the starting wage at AC, minus the cargo carriers who exceed AC by about 20k for the 757/767 and remain ahead until year 5.

You guys ARE the glass ceiling. Stop copping out and blaming the smaller, less protected companies from using your horrific wages, so that you can justify not actually being payed a respectable wage for your equipment while Air Canada is in one of its most profitable periods in its history.

Do better, not just for the other guy, but for yourself. Min starting wage at AC should be closer to 100k after perusing other international carriers starting wages who operate on the same equilment on the same scale.

Shame on you for constantly blaming the smaller guys.
Who do you work for and how much do you make?
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indieadventurer
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by indieadventurer » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:06 pm

Celtic1 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:34 pm
This needs to change if we want to be a "profession."
We won't ever be professionals as long as high time individuals with experience are treated the same as those meeting the minimum requirements. Is there another "professional" group that does that? Seniority should mean something for scheduling but it shouldn't be dictating when you upgrade and your starting pay.
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:39 pm

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Hangry
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by Hangry » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:48 pm

That’s what I thought. No need to hide.
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digits_
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by digits_ » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:53 pm

indieadventurer wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:06 pm
Celtic1 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:34 pm
This needs to change if we want to be a "profession."
We won't ever be professionals as long as high time individuals with experience are treated the same as those meeting the minimum requirements. Is there another "professional" group that does that? Seniority should mean something for scheduling but it shouldn't be dictating when you upgrade and your starting pay.
:!:

Agreed!
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Sharklasers
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by Sharklasers » Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:56 pm

schnitzel2k3 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:39 pm

Corporate and north of any of Air Canada's senior first officer wages flying a jet under 20T. I've been in this industry approximately 10 years.
The highest paid AC FO made 302k last year without bonus or per diems. Did you beat that on a light jet?

The average pilot salary was 176k last year at AC how did you stack against that?

The US wages are so high because of a history of pattern bargaining.
Its hard to pattern bargain when the carriers your trying to build off of are tripping over themselves to get paid less in order to secure more work.
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Celtic1
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by Celtic1 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:16 pm

Sharklasers wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:56 pm
schnitzel2k3 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:39 pm

Corporate and north of any of Air Canada's senior first officer wages flying a jet under 20T. I've been in this industry approximately 10 years.
The highest paid AC FO made 302k last year without bonus or per diems. Did you beat that on a light jet?

The average pilot salary was 176k last year at AC how did you stack against that?
With about 1000 or so pilots at AC earning less than 100k per year, this only illustrates the disparity of wages at AC. First year at United pays 91$ per hour and 120$ year two. Four years of flat pay to break 100k at AC is another example of companies taking advantage of keen and upcoming pilots, 'just because they can.'
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Last edited by Celtic1 on Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

flashheart
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by flashheart » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:16 pm

schnitzel2k3 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:20 pm
Hangry wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:04 pm
AC pilots will end up in aribitration sooner than later. How can they demand "industry standard" (even close to US carriers) when the rest of Canada is willing to work for way less garbage wages for airline work.

It is absolutely up to the other carriers to step up their game.

Ac is getting dragged down and has been for years. Look in the mirror.
Sorry, no.

Air Canada flies the heaviest metal, has the largest fleet, and is the only flag bearing carrier in Canada. You are at the head of the Canadian industry. Every other company in Canada is pegged at Air Canada's current wage scale. What's the starting wage on any 705 machine in Canada? About the same as the starting wage at AC, minus the cargo carriers who exceed AC by about 20k for the 757/767 and remain ahead until year 5.

You guys ARE the glass ceiling. Stop copping out and blaming the smaller, less protected companies from using your horrific wages, so that you can justify not actually being payed a respectable wage for your equipment while Air Canada is in one of its most profitable periods in its history.

Do better, not just for the other guy, but for yourself. Min starting wage at AC should be closer to 100k after perusing other international carriers starting wages who operate on the same equilment on the same scale.

Shame on you for constantly blaming the smaller guys.
Pretty hard to negotiate so bravely when you're forced back to work and you lose your ability to strike while your competition is accepting less and cleaning garbage.

Yes it sucks but a lot more to the story than simply ACPA's fault
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Hangry
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by Hangry » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:34 pm

flashheart wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:16 pm
schnitzel2k3 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:20 pm
Hangry wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:04 pm
AC pilots will end up in aribitration sooner than later. How can they demand "industry standard" (even close to US carriers) when the rest of Canada is willing to work for way less garbage wages for airline work.

It is absolutely up to the other carriers to step up their game.

Ac is getting dragged down and has been for years. Look in the mirror.
Sorry, no.

Air Canada flies the heaviest metal, has the largest fleet, and is the only flag bearing carrier in Canada. You are at the head of the Canadian industry. Every other company in Canada is pegged at Air Canada's current wage scale. What's the starting wage on any 705 machine in Canada? About the same as the starting wage at AC, minus the cargo carriers who exceed AC by about 20k for the 757/767 and remain ahead until year 5.

You guys ARE the glass ceiling. Stop copping out and blaming the smaller, less protected companies from using your horrific wages, so that you can justify not actually being payed a respectable wage for your equipment while Air Canada is in one of its most profitable periods in its history.

Do better, not just for the other guy, but for yourself. Min starting wage at AC should be closer to 100k after perusing other international carriers starting wages who operate on the same equilment on the same scale.

Shame on you for constantly blaming the smaller guys.
Pretty hard to negotiate so bravely when you're forced back to work and you lose your ability to strike while your competition is accepting less and cleaning garbage.

Yes it sucks but a lot more to the story than simply ACPA's fault
seriously. These big mouths need to learn to use google. It's not hard.
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:48 pm

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schnitzel2k3
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:08 pm

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Sharklasers
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by Sharklasers » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:34 pm

schnitzel2k3 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:08 pm
Sharklasers wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:56 pm
schnitzel2k3 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 4:39 pm

Corporate and north of any of Air Canada's senior first officer wages flying a jet under 20T. I've been in this industry approximately 10 years.
The average pilot salary was 176k last year at AC how did you stack against that?
Did very well, thank you for asking. Not quite the 0.01% @ 302K, but I don't have to sell my soul working draft to get to those numbers (nor likely pay alimony and child support). Most people in my neighborhood think I'm midlife retired or on parental leave.
So what your saying is you were full of :censored: when you said you had a higher wage than any Air Canada senior FO.

Senior FOs on the 777 all make North of 200k and are home 19-23 days a month IF they didn’t have one of their 6 weeks of vacation that month or use 1 of their 12 annual paid sick days. How does your light jet stack up their? Let’s talk pensions... how’s yours? mine says I’ll retire with 250k annually.


The flat pay was shoved down our throats in FOS and is one of the many distasteful things about that experience. We are slowly improving our contract with things like the pension being mostly fixed now. It’s a hard road because all the other Canadian carriers are so far behind us we cannot effectively pattern bargain.
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Re: Air Canada Pay

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:54 pm

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