220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

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Puffpuffpass
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220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

Post by Puffpuffpass »

Big Red has about 6 fins on the property,They look sharp....whats everyones thoughts on this new bird? Is it nice and fun to fly? I'd love to get some feedback.
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Re: 220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

Post by sstaurus »

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telex
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Re: 220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

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teacher
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Re: 220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

Post by teacher »

I like it. The HUD takes some getting use to and once the FL290 issue is resolved it’ll be a good plane. Passengers seem to like it. Plane has a few quirks but once you get used to them it’s nothing.
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KenoraPilot
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Re: 220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

Post by KenoraPilot »

Just as a passenger I wasn't super impressed. The lavs at the back make no sense and it's loud as a passenger. Really looks like a beefed up modern CRJ900. Really first world problems, but honestly I expected a little better from the C-Series. I'm sure its a great performer and I would love to drive one :)
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: 220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

Post by Daniel Cooper »

It's actually bad performer from what I've heard. Good on fuel though.
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Gino Under
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Re: 220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

Post by Gino Under »

Then you heard wrong.
But the fuel efficiency is worth the applause.
Anyone who doesn’t understand or appreciate that new, clean-sheet-designed aircraft have teething problems, doesn’t know a lot about new aircraft. The A220 is no different. Recall, if you will, the B787? Lithium batteries anyone? Not to mention the fact it was 3 years late to the show.
The biggest issue with the C Series, sorry A220, are the toilets.
Crap! Really?
Now that stinks! Don’t it?
Who’d a thought?
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letsoc
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Re: 220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

Post by letsoc »

Gino Under wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:11 pm The biggest issue with the C Series, sorry A220, are the toilets.
Crap! Really?
Now that stinks! Don’t it?
if you are saying that ac a220's lavatories are cramped, yes I agree. theres no room to turn around.

But delta's lavatory is located fwd of L2/R2 door and it is spacious and they even got a window.

Aircanada's lav is located aft of L2/R2 door, and is placed just fwd the aft pressure bulkhead, like their 7m8 and some ex-interjet a320 rouges.

I am not experienced enough to tell you how reliable a220's water/waste systems are, but 787's thin lav waste lines clogged occasionally.
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Re: 220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

Post by teacher »

KenoraPilot wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:55 am Just as a passenger I wasn't super impressed. The lavs at the back make no sense and it's loud as a passenger. Really looks like a beefed up modern CRJ900. Really first world problems, but honestly I expected a little better from the C-Series. I'm sure its a great performer and I would love to drive one :)
Gino Under wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:11 pm Then you heard wrong.
But the fuel efficiency is worth the applause.
Anyone who doesn’t understand or appreciate that new, clean-sheet-designed aircraft have teething problems, doesn’t know a lot about new aircraft. The A220 is no different. Recall, if you will, the B787? Lithium batteries anyone? Not to mention the fact it was 3 years late to the show.
The biggest issue with the C Series, sorry A220, are the toilets.
Crap! Really?
Now that stinks! Don’t it?
Who’d a thought?
Gino
:partyman:
I won’t lie, the aft cabin lavs are sad but that is an Air Canada cabin design choice to add another row of seats. There should be 2 large toilets not the one large aft facing one divided in 2.

The design from an aerodynamic perspective is amazing, clean and slick. Fuel burn is off the chart low for it’s size and impressive as well as it’s Load, range and field performance. Haven’t had a chance to fly it fully loaded on a hot day yet but according to others it’s very good. Comments on performance are usually that it doesn’t climb or fly fast but it was designed with efficiency in mind. The majority of take offs AND climb outs are at reduced power settings that blend fuel efficiency, engine wear and performance.

Once the kinks get ironed out it’ll be even better.

This is from the original CSeries brochure. Notice 2 lavs or 1 lav depending on seating. AC opted for the 1 lav layout (with 136 seats) but divided it by 2 making 2 out of the standard higher seating capacity single lav design.
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fish4life
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Re: 220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

Post by fish4life »

What kind of fuel burns is it getting? A friend of mine flew the Max at AC after flying the EMB and he said it was the same fuel burn on each airplane except the max Is way more seating. Anyone know on a per seat basis how they compare? Also noise max vs 220 ?
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teacher
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Re: 220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

Post by teacher »

Book says the MAX and EMB both have the same fuel burn with the A220 burning 360KG less and hour than the max. 2160 vs 1800.
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Re: 220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

Post by TheStig »

The MAX8 burns the same fuel (2200 kg/hr) as an A319 which AC has configured with 48 fewer seats (120 vs 168). The A220 and 190 are both around 1800, (from what I'm told) as few AC pilots have ventured above FL290.
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Re: 220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

Post by teacher »

TheStig wrote: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:33 am The MAX8 burns the same fuel (2200 kg/hr) as an A319 which AC has configured with 48 fewer seats (120 vs 168). The A220 and 190 are both around 1800, (from what I'm told) as few AC pilots have ventured above FL290.
My numbers are based on “at altitude” but yes, stuck at FL290 the A220 burns the same as an EMB at a proper cruising altitude but with 39 extra seats. Once it can climb above that the difference becomes very apparent.
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BTD
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Re: 220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

Post by BTD »

I usually saw the max down around 2000 kg an hour average. It was more at the beginning of the flight when heavy, but when light it would drop down.
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Re: 220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

Post by BMLtech »

Seems to be taking quite a long time for a fix on that engine resonance issue. Wonder what's happening behind the scene there? Possibly be a bit more to it than a software load? Must be bit of a drag slugging it out at 290 and watching everybody whistling by overhead, dodging CB's, etc?
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Jean-Pierre
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Re: 220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

Post by Jean-Pierre »

The CB issue is a big one this time of year. Imagine how bad the fuel economy is when you are flying off course.

Resonance issues are a big problem. Remember that bridge that collapse. Some engineers are really sweating this one. Imagine the bad press when an uncontained engine failure send shrapnel through the cabin. It would make MAX look like a Volvo of the sky.
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Re: 220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

Post by Inverted2 »

I deadheaded on one for the first time the other day. I did notice a bit of resonance in the cabin. Sort of a rumble. I assume it’s from the engine speeds not being matched. Otherwise it was nice.
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BMLtech
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Re: 220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

Post by BMLtech »

Jean-Pierre wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:41 pm The CB issue is a big one this time of year. Imagine how bad the fuel economy is when you are flying off course.

Resonance issues are a big problem. Remember that bridge that collapse. Some engineers are really sweating this one. Imagine the bad press when an uncontained engine failure send shrapnel through the cabin. It would make MAX look like a Volvo of the sky.
I don’t have any inside information, but the amount of time the C series has been operating with this major performance restriction is making me wonder if they are having to look at significant (read expensive) engine modifications. Also curious how the engine was validated with this serious inherent issue.
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fur1ough
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Re: 220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

Post by fur1ough »

Well obviously they didn't have the problem during validation.
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Re: 220 Pilots, what are you thoughts so far??

Post by 98 Corolla »

Aviation authorities seem to lack the resources or expertise to thoroughly validate a modern airliner so they rely on the manufacturer to self validate. Which of course may have a conflict of interest.
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