Air Canada Pool

[Slappy the Squirrel]

How are people leaving the pool? Ie seniority based or cherry picked

Slappy - you must be getting close?!

Not really, I'm somewhere in the middle of the pack, probably closer to the front but I'm not expecting anything until 2016 if I'm lucky now. Interviewed spring 2013.

They haven't told us how people are being taken out of the pool, I had assumed by interview date, but it sounds like that's not the case.

[flashheart]

What's another kick in the nuts though, right?

Indeed. I think all the poolies should meet for beers and drink this away

[BingBong]

How are people leaving the pool? Ie seniority based or cherry picked

Slappy - you must be getting close?!

Nobody holds seniority...not poolies...not jazz...not NASA until an offer of employment is made....
Frankly if I were running an airline I would prefer stronger candidates over weaker ones everyday of the week

[Slappy the Squirrel]

How are people leaving the pool? Ie seniority based or cherry picked

Slappy - you must be getting close?!

Nobody holds seniority...not poolies...not jazz...not NASA until an offer of employment is made....
Frankly if I were running an airline I would prefer stronger candidates over weaker ones everyday of the week

No arguments here Bingbong, we're just trying to piece this together, because from at least 2012 until recently they were hiring out of the pool in order of interview date. This is a fact, straight from the AC hiring department when we were put in the pool. That is why there is confusion amongst the poolies for the hiring process since it has changed recently. Of course nobody gets seniority with the company until they get hired, but I suspect he meant date of interview. Also, if I ran an airline I would hire the stronger candidate as well, so truly I wouldn't blame them if they did change their minds.

As stupid as it sounds, this is one of the only places a poolie can go to find exactly wtf is going on as far as hiring goes for better or for worse. I don't feel entitled to the next spot that opens at Air Canada, but at least give us a break for trying to figure out how this is all going to work.

[loopa]

If you are putting candidates into the pool, that means you desire their qualities and qualifications and feel that they are deserving of a job at your company. It's not like you put someone into the pool because you feel sorry for them... "You're not the best, but your not the worst... so SURE let's give you the pool."

Poolies are as good as new hires. There is a standard that you must meet in order to be as good as hired (or also known as placed in the pool). For that reason there should be minimal differences in who is better than another. There shouldn't be a large gap, because it's my belief that a company like AC has extremely high standards for their employees. So anyone making it through enough to be placed in the pool must be better than just good enough.

When you are sorting through people that scored 90.5% or 90.6% on their interview, they really aren't that much different. Especially in the case of AC where everyone starts out as a First Officer on something. Ok... if you were hiring Direct Entry Captain's and F/O's, I can see there being a larger gap between qualified candidates. But at the end of the day, these aren't college applications. Everyone in the pool is deserving of a shot. As much of a shot that they would of had if a pool didn't exist and the demand would deem them a direct spot like the case was many years ago. But just because there's a pool, some smart@ss will say that ones frustration with not being selected MUST be an indication to an entitlement problem. It really is not. It's a matter of timing. Look at Encore, they have a pool now. Anyone who is in the pool today would probably have received a ground school offer instead of a pool offer would they have interviewed a year ago. But now, the poolies wait. So linking frustration to entitlement is in my opinion completely out of context.

So what's fair is picking all your desired candidates in the order you told them they are successful. But since when was aviation fair ?

Patience is definitely a virtue, and slappy, I really feel for you man. You've been in the pool for almost 2 years now and that's a lot of time for a company to be prancing around in order to offer you a spot. My theory is, as soon as a company informs your CP that you are getting picked up by them, it's courtesy to take you sooner rather than later. I don't know, but most CP's won't offer you career advancements at companies if they know you are leaving. And 3 years is a time frame where you possibly have been overlooked for quite a few advancements if I'm not incorrect?

I'm not saying you're entitled to anything, but common courtesy seems to have extended its welcome in your case and that really sucks.

[cdnpilot77]

Common courtesy means squat when you have a multi-billion dollar business to run!

Good luck to the poolies, I'm sure you are pruned and tired of the swim, so put a life preserver on and just float til the day comes! It will all be but a minor blip on the radar a decade or 2 from now when you are sitting on a wide body over the pacific or arctic or wherever!

[acpoolie]

Hi everyone,

I am a fellow poolie, would anyone care to share there career experience? I am currently an ATR 42 Capt. I've been Capt. for 5 years. I also have some Beech 1900D time, both right and left seat. Sitting at around 7500 hrs, I have no post secondary.

Thank you

[Slappy the Squirrel]

Hey acpoolie.

Roughly 5500 hrs, captain on 705 turboprops for about 4 years, aviation college diploma, instructing background, can speak french.

Good luck to you!

[CID]

Common courtesy means squat when you have a multi-billion dollar business to run!

Good luck to the poolies, I'm sure you are pruned and tired of the swim, so put a life preserver on and just float til the day comes! It will all be but a minor blip on the radar a decade or 2 from now when you are sitting on a wide body over the pacific or arctic or wherever!

As usual cdnpilot77....no help all. Just can't help yourself eh?

[TeePeeCreeper]

Common courtesy means squat when you have a multi-billion dollar business to run!

Good luck to the poolies, I'm sure you are pruned and tired of the swim, so put a life preserver on and just float til the day comes! It will all be but a minor blip on the radar a decade or 2 from now when you are sitting on a wide body over the pacific or arctic or wherever!

As usual cdnpilot77....no help all. Just can't help yourself eh?

My gosh C/D, you certainly have shown how petty one can be when it comes to going though great lengths to make "a point"! Shame that your "point" gets "lost" with all the BS "noise" you keep muttering. How do you find enough spare minutes in a day to re search other threads in order to make your point heard?

Can you PM me with your contact details as I would like nothing more than ensure that a sour grape such as yourself never affiliates itself onto an AMO which services the airplanes I fly?

Thanks,
TPC

[TrailerParkBoy]

Before the recession, there were over 100 "poolies" waiting for the call. They picked the top candidates for their last ground school and the rest got a PFO letter.

You should be happy to have been on the list for the past 2 yrs.

[flashheart]

Before the recession, there were over 100 "poolies" waiting for the call. They picked the top candidates for their last ground school and the rest got a PFO letter.

You should be happy to have been on the list for the past 2 yrs.

And you had to walk to school up hill both ways ?

On a serious note - it makes business sense to keep us around. It wasn't free to fly poolies to Toronto and to interview & test them. To restart the process would take considerable time and resources. How about this...they will be lucky to lose as few of us as possible given the insane wait time. YEARS! ?

[smnoi]

For those who are interested, here is what I know:
-There will be a course on March 16th and another one on March 30th.
-They are aiming for 20 guys on the 16th within which 4 should be from the pool
-They called for medical people I know who interviewed in March 2013
That's all I know, good luck!

[rudder]

13 Jazz pilots on March 16 GS.

[JoeyBarton]

13 out of 20? that is not 80%! Empty promises already?

[flashheart]

Being a brilliant magician, oh I mean mathematician, can anyone confirm the total class size is 20?

So 65% ?

[Fanblade]

Sounds like some Jazz pilots were given reserved numbers because of the short notice.

Don't know more

[Dockjock]

Pilots are a commodity, mostly. If it makes you feel any better (it probably doesn't), macro hiring decision like this are made with greater goals in mind than what may or may not be fair to people on an individual level. This Jazz deal saves AC money in both the short and long term, and was done at a level far above those concerned with individual hiring decisions in flight ops. One of the beautiful things about working for a large company is that you are just a number- for those accustomed to being "the man" at a smaller operation, it may sometimes feel like your vast talents are being under utilized at big red; they are not, they are merely the qualifications required to get you in the door so that you can become a number, one of 3000. There is nothing personal about it, there never can be. Sure, we forge individual relationships along the way, but by and large you are just a cog with the right number of teeth that attaches in the right spot to keep the big machine running. Such as it is with the pool, and who gets on which course when, how many Jazz pilots there are (many likely with 15,000+ hours, it bears mentioning), what equipment, base, and so forth. There are so many factors out of your control it barely merits even remembering you're even IN the pool. Yes, it's frustrating that a deal to put 500 pilots in front of you swooped in from nowhere, but you have no control over it as you will have no control over the job when you actually do get in the door. Just accept it, it's life in a big company (23,000 precious snowflakes and counting). I mean, if you have naked pictures of the person in charge of filling the courses by all means now is the time to blackmail, but absent that you may as well just chill the heck out. Good luck.

[flashheart]

Pilots are a commodity, mostly. If it makes you feel any better (it probably doesn't), macro hiring decision like this are made with greater goals in mind than what may or may not be fair to people on an individual level. This Jazz deal saves AC money in both the short and long term, and was done at a level far above those concerned with individual hiring decisions in flight ops. One of the beautiful things about working for a large company is that you are just a number- for those accustomed to being "the man" at a smaller operation, it may sometimes feel like your vast talents are being under utilized at big red; they are not, they are merely the qualifications required to get you in the door so that you can become a number, one of 3000. There is nothing personal about it, there never can be. Sure, we forge individual relationships along the way, but by and large you are just a cog with the right number of teeth that attaches in the right spot to keep the big machine running. Such as it is with the pool, and who gets on which course when, how many Jazz pilots there are (many likely with 15,000+ hours, it bears mentioning), what equipment, base, and so forth. There are so many factors out of your control it barely merits even remembering you're even IN the pool. Yes, it's frustrating that a deal to put 500 pilots in front of you swooped in from nowhere, but you have no control over it as you will have no control over the job when you actually do get in the door. Just accept it, it's life in a big company (23,000 precious snowflakes and counting). I mean, if you have naked pictures of the person in charge of filling the courses by all means now is the time to blackmail, but absent that you may as well just chill the heck out. Good luck.

After reading this, my respect for Jazz has just increased 10 fold.


Thanks for that DockJock. Proves that anyone can really be a pilot

[aV1aTOr]

Pilots are a commodity, mostly. If it makes you feel any better (it probably doesn't), macro hiring decision like this are made with greater goals in mind than what may or may not be fair to people on an individual level. This Jazz deal saves AC money in both the short and long term, and was done at a level far above those concerned with individual hiring decisions in flight ops. One of the beautiful things about working for a large company is that you are just a number- for those accustomed to being "the man" at a smaller operation, it may sometimes feel like your vast talents are being under utilized at big red; they are not, they are merely the qualifications required to get you in the door so that you can become a number, one of 3000. There is nothing personal about it, there never can be. Sure, we forge individual relationships along the way, but by and large you are just a cog with the right number of teeth that attaches in the right spot to keep the big machine running. Such as it is with the pool, and who gets on which course when, how many Jazz pilots there are (many likely with 15,000+ hours, it bears mentioning), what equipment, base, and so forth. There are so many factors out of your control it barely merits even remembering you're even IN the pool. Yes, it's frustrating that a deal to put 500 pilots in front of you swooped in from nowhere, but you have no control over it as you will have no control over the job when you actually do get in the door. Just accept it, it's life in a big company (23,000 precious snowflakes and counting). I mean, if you have naked pictures of the person in charge of filling the courses by all means now is the time to blackmail, but absent that you may as well just chill the heck out. Good luck.

After reading this, my respect for Jazz has just increased 10 fold.


Thanks for that DockJock. Proves that anyone can really be a pilot

Insulting as it may seem, DockJock simply called it as it is. Fair? for some, yes. For others, no. Welcome to working for a company with 23,000 special snowflakes.