No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

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Rockie
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by Rockie »

I would avoid discussing specifics.
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Raymond Hall
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by Raymond Hall »

I see it a little differently.

The fact that both the employer and the union have essentially been forced to take a public stance in response to an apparent or potential practice of employee age discrimination in the workplace indicates that both now recognize that the legally debatable issue of termination of employment at age 60 that was heretofore being dealt with through due legal process is presently manifesting itself in a manner separate from the law, and that that now improper behavior must be accorded the full weight of administrative governance.

There is a legal duty imposed on both to ensure compliance with both the spirit and intent of the law. This bulletin, in addition to recognizing the existence of potential improper behavior, provides a caution to those who would be tempted to carry their previous ostensibly legal distinction forward in a manner that is decidedly not in accordance with the present law.
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TrailerParkBoy
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by TrailerParkBoy »

I think Bernie Sanders said it well last night in reference to Hilary Clinton email issue..."Enough with the damn emails"

I think we have heard enough of the FL60 issue. Please let it go!
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Old fella
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by Old fella »

TrailerParkBoy wrote:I think Bernie Sanders said it well last night in reference to Hilary Clinton email issue..."Enough with the damn emails"

I think we have heard enough of the FL60 issue. Please let it go!
I am surprised the moderators are letting it continue with the numerous threads and many associated pages on this AC FL60 issue that have go on. But whatever!!!!!!!
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Ah_yeah
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by Ah_yeah »

duranium wrote:
Rockie wrote:"Ageism" bulletin.

The hypocrisy pouring out of that bulletin from ACPA is enough to gag anyone familiar with the history. There is not an ounce of credibility behind the words but at least now they are being forced to say them.
Does anybody have enough fortitude, backbone, gumption, GUSTS, to post this bulletin so the unwashed, us , have an idea of what is been said. What say you out there?
Pfftt. Nice try.
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777longhaul
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by 777longhaul »

Raven

Thanks for your post. Pleased to hear you have not had any problems with the age 60 issue. However, I see you are not yet at/over 60, so that may change. Hope not.

Currious, will you be staying past 60? You stated that you have the 35 years in, so pension not an issue, except for the new MPU's, which nicely covered the loss of indexing to those of us that were forced out at 60.

If you elect to stay past 60, it is nice to see, that you can make that decision, and not have the acpa force, use your dues to force you out, as they did to us.

Sure would be nice to see the pilot(s) who were on the top secret project, called project Ultra, and project SAC, and are now going past 60, on the 787 as a Captain. Hope he enjoys his time there, as he was totally fighting tooth and nail to make sure acpa did not back its members, who paid dues for all those decades.
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Last edited by 777longhaul on Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
777longhaul
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by 777longhaul »

777longhaul wrote:Raven

Thanks for your post. Pleased to hear you have not had any problems with the age 60 issue. However, I see you are not yet at/over 60, so that may change. Hope not.

Currious, will you be staying past 60? You stated that you have the 35 years in, so pension not an issue, except for the new MPU's, which nicely covered the loss of indexing to those of us that were forced out at 60.

If you elect to stay past 60, it is nice to see, that you can make that decision, and not have the acpa force, use your dues to force you out, as they did to us.

Sure would be nice to see the pilot(s) who were on the top secret project, called project Ultra, and are now going past 60, on the 787 as a Captain. Hope he enjoys his time there, as he was totally fighting tooth and nail to make sure acpa did not back its members, who paid dues for all those decades.
The Raven wrote:
duranium wrote:
Rockie wrote:"Ageism" bulletin.

The hypocrisy pouring out of that bulletin from ACPA is enough to gag anyone familiar with the history. There is not an ounce of credibility behind the words but at least now they are being forced to say them.
Does anybody have enough fortitude, backbone, gumption, GUSTS, to post this bulletin so the unwashed, us , have an idea of what is been said. What say you out there?
Crikey, don't get your panties in a knot. You're reading too much into it.

I have the bulletin in front of me, and no I am not going to post it. Not because I don't have the "fortitude, backbone, gumption, GUSTS (sic), but because it is none of your business.

I will give a quick synopsis though. Essentially, it says that there is a list with pilots birth dates and seniority numbers floating around. Hell, I've been at Air Canada for 35 years and that list has always been available. As a matter of fact I have a list in front of me right now and if you are ex-Air Canada, you probably had one before you retired. It's no big deal.

All the company and ACPA are saying is that if anyone uses the list to threaten or harass anyone that it will not be tolerated. As I approach age 60, I can honestly say that I have not been approached, threatened, harassed, cajoled, intimidated, or anything else regarding my intentions on flying/or not flying past age 60.

Nothing to see here. Time to go outside and play.
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AvExpress
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by AvExpress »

disregard answer found
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leftoftrack
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by leftoftrack »

So how are the new hires working out?
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yycflyguy
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by yycflyguy »

Raymond Hall wrote:I see it a little differently.

The fact that both the employer and the union have essentially been forced to take a public stance in response to an apparent or potential practice of employee age discrimination in the workplace indicates that both now recognize that the legally debatable issue of termination of employment at age 60 that was heretofore being dealt with through due legal process is presently manifesting itself in a manner separate from the law, and that that now improper behavior must be accorded the full weight of administrative governance.
Now you got 'em right where you want 'em! :lol:
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Rockie
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by Rockie »

No surprise the union doesn't see the irony in leading the fight to perpetuate discrimination against their own members for ten years, then miraculously growing a set of ethics and morals to scold the pilots for doing precisely what they led them to do. A public admission that they were wrong, that they failed their membership, and that they regret their actions seems the least they could do under the circumstances.

No...I'm not holding my breath.
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tailgunner
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by tailgunner »

Rockie,
For the sake of the rest of us, please do. :lol:
Cheers
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Rockie
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by Rockie »

YOU...are funny. That's the best rebuttal I've ever heard on any topic
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WhatThe?
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by WhatThe? »

"NO CLEAR WINNER IN FCA MANDATORY RETIREMENT DECISION"

I completely disagree...

I believe we are all winners, because no matter what inane topic is posted, we all get to READ pages and pages of dribble from the FLYpast60 crowd...yea!

Keep up the good work guys; and remember under no circumstance should you enjoy your retirement that you previously worked hard to get.

I have to go and live my life... see you in another 6-months.
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Understated
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by Understated »

WhatThe? wrote:"
I believe we are all winners, because no matter what inane topic is posted, we all get to READ pages and pages of dribble from the FLYpast60 crowd...yea!
Well, "WhatThe?", literacy is obviously not one of your trump cards. How's that for 'drivel', as opposed to 'dribble'?
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Raymond Hall
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by Raymond Hall »

Stay tuned. The Supreme Court of Canada is now deciding the Leave to Appeal application.
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Brick Head
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by Brick Head »

Raymond Hall wrote:Stay tuned. The Supreme Court of Canada is now deciding the Leave to Appeal application.
Stay tuned. My financial advisor is reevaluating my ability to retire at 60. Looks like widebody captain has been put off until 58-59 ish. My pension reduction hit is accordingly.

I'm far from alone. Crap there is hundreds of us I think. The reality just starting to sink in. Bid after no movement bid. Don't get me wrong, expansion is great for hiring, but it is doing nothing for those seeking their best 5 years who are currently 50+.

Thanks for all you do Ray.
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Rockie
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by Rockie »

You're aware the law changed Brick Head, and that Air Canada pilots past or present had no control over it? I know you think the country revolves around your career expectations but it really doesn't.
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pigboat
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by pigboat »

Raymond Hall wrote:Stay tuned. The Supreme Court of Canada is now deciding the Leave to Appeal application.
Hello Ray,

Could you give us your best Guess as to when they will render a decision? A few days, months or impossible to predict.

Regards!
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rudder
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Re: No Clear Winner in FCA Mandatory Retirement Decision

Post by rudder »

Brick Head wrote:
Stay tuned. My financial advisor is reevaluating my ability to retire at 60. Looks like widebody captain has been put off until 58-59 ish. My pension reduction hit is accordingly.
I would take a closer look at the math. You will probably take a bigger hit if you leave with just 30 years of earned entitlement in the plan calculated at WB Capt earnings for FAE rather than the maximum entitlement of 35 years calculated on NB Capt earnings or a split between the two.

If the 35 year entitlements are based on NB Capt vs WB Capt rate then there will be a differential but is it really enough to affect quality of life in retirement?

Obviously years over 35 do nothing unless those years affect the FAE calculation (see above).
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