Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

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BillyBeany
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Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by BillyBeany »

After been warned of all the negative aspects of Aviation Degrees, I've decided to complete my flight training alongside doing a 4 year Computer Science Degree in Toronto.

So, on to my question...

Will Air Canada regard a 4 year Bachelors of Computer Science as highly as an Aviation college Degree/Diploma?

Furthermore...

Do Airlines, in Canada, really care about Aviation degrees?
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RImrock143
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by RImrock143 »

BillyBeany,

Do you care to enlighten us on what "negative aspects" of Aviation Degrees you have discovered when relating to the Aviation industry?
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esp803

Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by esp803 »

I can guarantee a real degree looks better than an "aviation degree", in this industry and every other industry. With the possible exception of North Wright which requires an aviation diploma... or did on the their last posting.

E
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Mooseontheloose
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by Mooseontheloose »

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Last edited by Mooseontheloose on Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

RImrock143
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by RImrock143 »

Something to consider is getting an Aviation Degree combined with a University Degree from an accredited bachelors program. This is possible at institutions such as Embry Riddle Aeronautical University, Western University, and Waterloo University to name a few. If you receive Commercial, Muti, IFR training in conjunction with a Science, Aeronautics, or Business and Management degree, this enables you to fall back on the skills and training from the bachelor side of academics if something were to happen to your medical cat or the industry experience large scale pilot layoffs.

Aviation diplomas and Aviation college degrees are a different form of education than the above.

If you're not interested in the associated bachelors degree that accompanies the aviation program/specialization, getting a degree in what your interested in and have a passion for is totally the way to do it. You can get your pilot licenses on the side and under a training program that fits your needs and schedule.

food for thought
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bearitus
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by bearitus »

Do airlines such as AC or Westjet differentiate between what University degree you have and give you more points for say Engineering or Science compared to say Arts or Music?
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BillyBeany
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by BillyBeany »

RImrock143 wrote:BillyBeany,

Do you care to enlighten us on what "negative aspects" of Aviation Degrees you have discovered when relating to the Aviation industry?
- Aviation Degrees are useless if you lose your medical or get furloughed.

- If you realize Aviation isn't for you, you'll need to obtain further education.

- Airlines, at least so I've heard, couldn't care less what degree you have or where it's from.
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LTD
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by LTD »

My personal opinion.. from what I have witnessed with other pilots progressing around me over the years... It's that flight hours are the single most important thing in your pilot resume.

If progressing ASAP in your career as a pilot is your number one priority, I sincerely believe 4 years in university (or aviation college) is NOT as valuable as the 4000 hours you could potentially have acquired in your logbook for the equivalent amount of time in college.

Of course, if you take one pilot with 4000h and another with same 4000h + a university degree (or aviation college), than of course the college graduate will have an advantage. But it took the college graduate and extra 4 years to get there because of time spent in college! Without college he would maybe be up to 7-8000h and be in the left seat of a 737 for Sunwing or right seat of a wide body for a major airline.... !!!

I speak from experience because I went the route of getting a 4 year mechanical engineering degree after an airline pilot told me it was a "requirement"... Only after graduating university did I start focusing flying. When I finally got the airline job I was aiming for, I was 32 years old while other candidates in my ground school were 26 or 27 years old with similar logbook and NO college education.

Am I happy I have an engineering degree: yes of course. But am I a bit jealous of the 26 year old with no education that got the same job ahead of me: yes I am;)

This was my personal experience only... Food for thought.
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BillyBeany
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by BillyBeany »

LTD wrote:My personal opinion.. from what I have witnessed with other pilots progressing around me over the years... It's that flight hours are the single most important thing in your pilot resume.

If progressing ASAP in your career as a pilot is your number one priority, I sincerely believe 4 years in university (or aviation college) is NOT as valuable as the 4000 hours you could potentially have acquired in your logbook for the equivalent amount of time in college.

Of course, if you take one pilot with 4000h and another with same 4000h + a university degree (or aviation college), than of course the college graduate will have an advantage. But it took the college graduate and extra 4 years to get there because of time spent in college! Without college he would maybe be up to 7-8000h and be in the left seat of a 737 for Sunwing or right seat of a wide body for a major airline.... !!!

I speak from experience because I went the route of getting a 4 year mechanical engineering degree after an airline pilot told me it was a "requirement"... Only after graduating university did I start focusing flying. When I finally got the airline job I was aiming for, I was 32 years old while other candidates in my ground school were 26 or 27 years old with similar logbook and NO college education.

Am I happy I have an engineering degree: yes of course. But am I a bit jealous of the 26 year old with no education that got the same job ahead of me: yes I am;)

This was my personal experience only... Food for thought.
Air Canada states that they require post-secondary education.
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LTD
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by LTD »

BillyBeany wrote:


Air Canada states that they require post-secondary education.
I'm not saying going to school is a bad idea, quite the contrary!
BUT, I am saying lots have been hired without meeting that requirement in the past because they had good flying experience, and they were good candidates based on other factors valued by Air Canada. Wouldn't surprise me if this happened again in the future...
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smnoi
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by smnoi »

With Air Canada, an aviation diploma can replace a degree in terms of points. I was hired in 2012 with 2500 hours and an aviation diploma only. I don't think that doing a degree is bad, especially if you are doing it at the same time as your flight lessons. What I don't recommend is 'loosing' 3 or 4 years going to school if you could be flying instead. There will always be the next crisis where you will be laid off or won't find a job and then you can do your degree.
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BillyBeany
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by BillyBeany »

smnoi wrote:With Air Canada, an aviation diploma can replace a degree in terms of points. I was hired in 2012 with 2500 hours and an aviation diploma only. I don't think that doing a degree is bad, especially if you are doing it at the same time as your flight lessons. What I don't recommend is 'loosing' 3 or 4 years going to school if you could be flying instead. There will always be the next crisis where you will be laid off or won't find a job and then you can do your degree.
I do plan on completing my flight training during the 3rd and 4th years of my degree, which will allow me to build up hours; I'll likely have 250 hours by the time I'm finished University.
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plhought
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by plhought »

What's an "aviation degree"?. Is it a BA, BSc, BComm or what. Or is it a Aviation Diploma/Certificate. Two very different things.

Honestly if I saw a guy with a BComm or whatever in "Aviation Management" vs. a guy with a Bsc in Eng applying for a pilot job - I'd be looking at their flying qualifications first. They got their post secondary done if that is indeed a requirement of a job.

If I need a guy to run my survey project then obviously ya I'd forgoe the Aviation Management guy.

But your objective is to get a flying job right? I'd be pretty choked if a lower-time guy got the job over me because he has a 'real' degree.
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Bede
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by Bede »

Why would you spend 4 years now getting a degree as a backup for something that might happen in 20 years instead of building your career now? In the off chance that you lose your medical you can go back to school and use up those 4 years at that time.

Also, your 20 year old university degree with no experience is essentially worthless anyways.

If you want to be a pilot, go to college. If you want to be an engineer, go to university

- signed, a university grad
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tipsails
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by tipsails »

BillyBeany wrote:
LTD wrote:My personal opinion.. from what I have witnessed with other pilots progressing around me over the years... It's that flight hours are the single most important thing in your pilot resume.

If progressing ASAP in your career as a pilot is your number one priority, I sincerely believe 4 years in university (or aviation college) is NOT as valuable as the 4000 hours you could potentially have acquired in your logbook for the equivalent amount of time in college.

Of course, if you take one pilot with 4000h and another with same 4000h + a university degree (or aviation college), than of course the college graduate will have an advantage. But it took the college graduate and extra 4 years to get there because of time spent in college! Without college he would maybe be up to 7-8000h and be in the left seat of a 737 for Sunwing or right seat of a wide body for a major airline.... !!!

I speak from experience because I went the route of getting a 4 year mechanical engineering degree after an airline pilot told me it was a "requirement"... Only after graduating university did I start focusing flying. When I finally got the airline job I was aiming for, I was 32 years old while other candidates in my ground school were 26 or 27 years old with similar logbook and NO college education.

Am I happy I have an engineering degree: yes of course. But am I a bit jealous of the 26 year old with no education that got the same job ahead of me: yes I am;)

This was my personal experience only... Food for thought.
Air Canada states that they require post-secondary education.

Minimums are never minimums. I know multiple recent hires at AC mainline (within the last 5 years) that had no degree or diploma. Only private flight school training.
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scopiton
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by scopiton »

the way you can see it is they want to make sure you'll be able to read and understand company's manuals, aircraft's manuals, that studying for a type rating won't be an unreachable intellectual challenge, and in the end, that you'll be able to write a report with sentences that make sense.

I'd go with Bede's advice.
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honest joe
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by honest joe »

Neither WJ nor Air Canada require their pilots to have a degree. It is all about hiring an experienced pilot. Get the experience :D
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snag
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by snag »

Heck. Why even worry about finishing high school? That's another 2 year head start.
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Ironman2909
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by Ironman2909 »

snag wrote:Heck. Why even worry about finishing high school? That's another 2 year head start.

:smt040
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Bede
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by Bede »

snag wrote:Heck. Why even worry about finishing high school? That's another 2 year head start.
One of my favorite captains, Stan Nielson at Jazz, only had grade 10. He grew up on the farm, learned to drive heavy equipment and got into flying young. He used to say, "when you guys were in high school, I was building seniority".
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by goingnowherefast »

Aviation diplomas are most useful as a networking tool. Sit down at an interview, and the guy across the the table went to the same college. Some of my instructors and class mates are now training captains and chief pilots.

I've gotten more jobs because a class mate or ex-instructor said good things about me me than I have because my resume says "Aviation Diploma". I've also helped several class mates get jobs, and it had nothing to do with their Aviation Diploma.

I recommend picking any aviation college, they're all good. Do your homework, go out for beers, make friends. Who knows, in 5 years, you will be messaging a chief pilot on Facebook asking if they're hiring. Plus, three of their line pilots are old class mates, and would like to have you as a coworker.
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tipsails
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by tipsails »

The same can be said with just co workers from companies you've worked at. That networking may help you get your first job but after the doors open.

I know lots of guys up in NWT working the ground for years with an aviation diploma, and lots of other guys (myself included) who found flying jobs relatively quick without one.

At the end of the day do what you feel is best. If you really want a diploma, go do night school at a community college at get a biz diploma. Fly with the best local flight school during the days and in the same two years you now have a useful diploma (should flying not work out) and your pilots license.

Get your first flying job, and in the 5 years it will take you to make it to the majors you can do correspondence and make that biz diploma, a degree.
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fallex
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by fallex »

Back 5 years ago when I was more in tune wth hiring process, I knew that as far as AC was concerned an aviation diploma carried exactly the same weight as a university degree in any field as far as the selection process goes. Today that may have changed but I doubt it. Education is important, however I know many people at AC without any post secondary education despite it being listed as a requirement.

That being said, having an education will score you more points than someone with none, but if your interview does not go well it will not make up the difference. You are graded on an overall scale.

Personally if I were doing things again, I think I would forgo the aviation diploma and pursue a university degree in another field, then follow it up with an accelerated flying program. Today the game has changed and it never hurts to have a fallback option.
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pigboat
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by pigboat »

To answer the original posters question!

Air Canada will credit you with EQUAL points on your interview for either a Degree or Aviation diploma. There is no advantage getting hired with one over the other. A Degree will carry you further in life if you fall out of Aviation as a Career. The main issue is that AC is looking for the fact that you can work to a high workload of learning. A Degree does not mean a better pilot. Many of those at AC have flown entire careers with a High School education.

Many hired from Jazz will not have post secondary education. There is no hard and fast rule.

Regards.
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dtpilot
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Re: Aviation Degree vs. University Degree

Post by dtpilot »

Let's not confuse now with 2012. Until guys start getting accepted to ground schools will we know what the off the street hiring requirements are. In 2012 they were taking ATPLs and two feet and a heart beat. Supply and demand. Seems like everyone applying now may have 3-4-5000 hours so competition might be stronger. Maybe degrees will be required. We shall wait and see!
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