C series

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scopiton
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Re: C series

Post by scopiton » Sun Feb 21, 2016 3:33 pm

60% discount and charges concerning AVEOS were dropped.
smart move from AC and you can be pretty sure that Bombardier and the Qc gov representatives were begging for a deal at any price.
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teacher
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Re: C series

Post by teacher » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:06 am

From CIBC World Markets' latest report on Air Canada:
2. C Series Decision - Significant Savings: The decision to acquire the C Series had many direct and indirect positive implications. Firstly, it reflects the fact that the ERJs in the fleet today will hit a maintenance wall in 2021 and the economics of investing in this existing fleet did not make sense. As such the company's LOI for 45 firm CS300s and an option for 30 more are to replace these aircraft. Given that the C Series is a more efficient plane, and we suspect a healthy discount from list price, the payback from this investment is very attractive. Secondly, with 25 E190s in the fleet at the end of 2016, a chunk of the CS300s coming in are replacing existing aircraft with growth opportunities coming from the aircraft providing more point-to-point options. As well, we believe the C Series could be used in rouge as a potential future replacement for the A319s. Thirdly, AC has ensured that the delivery of the C Series is post its refleeting of the 787s and towards the end of when the 737 MAX come in so that it does not stress the balance sheet. And lastly, in conjunction with the C Series order, the Quebec Government dropped its litigation related to AC in regard to maintenance activity being performed in the province (AC agreed to have its C Series airframe heavy maintenance work performed in Quebec) and the Federal Government is reviewing the Air Canada Public Participation Act as it relates to maintenance activities
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rudder
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Re: C series

Post by rudder » Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:00 am

Rouge does not need C-series to replace the 319's. It needs the 737MAX which will have the lowest per seat operating cost in the narrow body class in a bulked up seating configuration.

Any idea what the pay rate will be on the C-series using the weight/speed formula? Clearly it will be far above the E190 but below the blended rate mainline NB Airbus rate.
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aV1aTOr
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Re: C series

Post by aV1aTOr » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:22 am

rudder wrote:Rouge does not need C-series to replace the 319's. It needs the 737MAX which will have the lowest per seat operating cost in the narrow body class in a bulked up seating configuration.

Any idea what the pay rate will be on the C-series using the weight/speed formula? Clearly it will be far above the E190 but below the blended rate mainline NB Airbus rate.
I've been wondering the same thing. And for that matter (at the risk of thread drift), anyone done the math on what the blended 737 MAX pay rates will be? Same as A320 pay, or a touch better?
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Gino Under
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Re: C series

Post by Gino Under » Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:03 pm

Since there have been some interesting comments made here, I thought I'd set the record straight on a couple of them.

1. Bombardier doesn't sell aircraft in Cdn dollars. They only sell in U.S. Dollars, just like all the other OEMs. For obvious reasons.

2. The CS100 CASM is the lowest in the airline industry. Their isn't a Boeing anywhere near it.

3. Air Canada has been looking at the C series for a long time. So have a number of legacy airlines. British Airways among them. I doubt they would have bought the aeroplane if it didn't fit their fleet planning and its commercial viability looking to the future.

Gino :partyman:
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Re: C series

Post by Old fella » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:44 pm

Glad you intend to get the record straight Gino, but it should be " There isn't a Boeing anywhere near it"
:wink:
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Gino Under
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Re: C series

Post by Gino Under » Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:48 pm

Right you are. Oops.

Cheers,
Gino :drinkers:
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Re: C series

Post by Old fella » Thu Mar 03, 2016 11:14 am

Taking the "their" out of the"there", your knowledge on the subject at hand is certainly well above mine. Syntax aside, I would be unarmed going up against you on many of the topics discussed.

:drinkers: :drinkers: :partyman:
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Cseriesfan
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Re: C series

Post by Cseriesfan » Thu Sep 14, 2017 3:20 pm

New to the forum. Any news or additional details on the CS300 arrival at AC? Any recent news on how it could be used? Will it still fly for mainline or would they be considered for Rouge? What's the latest?
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Gino Under
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Re: C series

Post by Gino Under » Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:35 am

There is no sign of life regarding C series at Air Canada.
Perhaps their focus is on the Max right now. Possibly even due to the fact they won't see the C till 2019 (or so).

GU :?:
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sanjet
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Re: C series

Post by sanjet » Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:05 am

Gino is right. Lots to investment and preparation for the 737.


The only thing I heard, AC might actually order more c-series (if the price is right).
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/air-can ... -1.4370933
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Gino Under
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Re: C series

Post by Gino Under » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:53 am

With Delta delaying C series entry until the Airbus plant in Alabama can deliver, it could give Air Canada (Rouge) the opportunity to see the CS300 earlier than planned. Bombardier has to renegotiate some deliveries now that Airbus is taking over the program.

Gino :partyman:
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Re: C series

Post by Rockie » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:20 am

Gino Under wrote:With Delta delaying C series entry until the Airbus plant in Alabama can deliver, it could give Air Canada (Rouge) the opportunity to see the CS300 earlier than planned. Bombardier has to renegotiate some deliveries now that Airbus is taking over the program.

Gino :partyman:
While they may be available sooner I just can't see AC getting them sooner. It's a very aggressive program bringing the 737 into the fleet and I think we're "maxed" out.
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rudder
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Re: C series

Post by rudder » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:32 am

The DAL orders are CS100’s. The AC order is CS300’s. While I am certain that there is a substitution provision in the purchase agreement, I am not sure that AC is interested in the smaller version.
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Gino Under
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Re: C series

Post by Gino Under » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:00 pm

The difference between the 100 and 300 is simply a fuselage plug. That’s it.
Bombardier doesn’t need to make any exception during production or special changes in production line order.
In fact, if Delta decided they wanted to convert an in-service 100 into a 300, there’s an STC that allows Bombardier to split the fuselage, drop in the fuselage plug and voila... the 100 is now a 300. Way les$$ than buying a brand new aircraft and waiting for it to be built.

The unidentified European carrier that ordered 31 should have a better than expected delivery schedule as a result of Deltas delay.

Delta might be the first North American airline to operate into LCY. Unless Air Canada has similar ideas and gets a few aircraft early. Including some 100s if they’ve noticed it’s versatility?
It’s up to the route planners in the end.

:partyman: Gino
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Speedalive
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Re: C series

Post by Speedalive » Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:59 am

Looks like the CSeries, errr A220, is in the Navi magazine now! Any new developments at AC about possible routes? I saw YVR-BOS, Eastern Canada-Europe, and Hawaii mentioned in an older interview article with Ben Smith.
Gino Under wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:00 pm
Delta might be the first North American airline to operate into LCY. Unless Air Canada has similar ideas and gets a few aircraft early.
Not sure if there’s a business case for it with the train service from Heathrow to London, but it would be really neat to see AC start YYZ-YUL-LCY!

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Re: C series

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:03 pm

TheStig wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:08 am
bobcaygeon wrote:Scope used to be 50 seats (with the F28/BAE146 grandfathered in).

On the positive note (for management) there will be almost 4 years for everybody to "Limbo" to see how low they can go.
Existing deals mean nothing as there are always contract openers and LOU's to be used. aka Sky Regional and Georgian jet flying as an example.
There is no limbo. The 10 year contract between ACPA and Air Canada signed last year has 3 re-openers, which can go to arbitration. However, having watched an arbitrator give the E175's away there is now language preventing scope from being an article to which an arbitrator can rule over.

If you think there are any conditions ACPA would negotiate away roughly 1000 positions, you're crazy.

I'm not sure where the sentiment that the regionals deserve a 'share' of these aircraft comes from? A 150 seat aircraft with a range of 3000+nm isn't a regional airplane. These will be good paying mainline jobs, this is a good thing for pilots.
Agreed!

S.
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Re: C series

Post by daedalusx » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:30 pm

As much as I'd love to be able to fly the CS, I agree. It's a mainline NB that should be flown at mainline rates.
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Re: C series

Post by Lightchop » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:46 pm

daedalusx wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:30 pm
As much as I'd love to be able to fly the CS, I agree. It's a mainline NB that should be flown at mainline rates.
As an express pilot who would likely be able to hold it I agree. I can't wrap my head around the argument some guys have that we should fly it. No thanks. I'd rather get hired at mainline and fly it there for more money.
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Re: C series

Post by goleafsgo » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:55 pm

Lightchop wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:46 pm
daedalusx wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:30 pm
As much as I'd love to be able to fly the CS, I agree. It's a mainline NB that should be flown at mainline rates.
As an express pilot who would likely be able to hold it I agree. I can't wrap my head around the argument some guys have that we should fly it. No thanks. I'd rather get hired at mainline and fly it there for more money.
It's cause it (used to be) a bombardier product and bombardier=regional in most people's minds. Maybe now that it's airbus that mindset will slowly go away?

On a side note, how is an RJ flying YVR-ORD "regional"?
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Re: C series

Post by Lightchop » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:42 pm

goleafsgo wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:55 pm
Lightchop wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:46 pm
daedalusx wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:30 pm
As much as I'd love to be able to fly the CS, I agree. It's a mainline NB that should be flown at mainline rates.
As an express pilot who would likely be able to hold it I agree. I can't wrap my head around the argument some guys have that we should fly it. No thanks. I'd rather get hired at mainline and fly it there for more money.
It's cause it (used to be) a bombardier product and bombardier=regional in most people's minds. Maybe now that it's airbus that mindset will slowly go away?

On a side note, how is an RJ flying YVR-ORD "regional"?
Don't ask me. I don't fly the jet anymore but I was always asking the same thing about ORD, DFW even YWG out of YVR. SAN could even be thrown in there. Hardly "regional." Jazz is more like a trans continental airline now. RJ pilots can start their day in YVR and finish in YYT.
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rudder
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Re: C series

Post by rudder » Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:59 am

Battles over Express scope has done nothing but waste bargaining capital and lower the bar. Management must be giddy over the labour benefits it derives from watching pilots fight with other pilots.

If the pilots would stop fighting and instead begin to work together it should not be that difficult to come up with reasonable limits on the the size and number of aircraft that can have the word ‘EXPRESS’ painted on the side.

C-series are mainline aircraft. E190’s are mainline aircraft. And there are just a couple of products out there that are mission capable and economically viable at 76 seat/multi class configuration. Not much to fight over. AC could already be subcontracting many more 76 seat jets to Express operators but sees no commercial reason to do so.

These are good days for AC pilots and aspiring AC pilots, many of whom will come from the ranks of the Express carriers. Time to open a meaningful dialogue and lift all of the boats.
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Re: C series

Post by altiplano » Wed Nov 21, 2018 1:31 pm

AC already operates a higher ratio of CPA:Mainline departures/flying than any other legacy airline in North America.

C-series are AC aircraft. Period. There is no battling required...
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Re: C series

Post by sepia » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:29 am

Speedalive wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:59 am
Looks like the CSeries, errr A220, is in the Navi magazine now! Any new developments at AC about possible routes? I saw YVR-BOS, Eastern Canada-Europe, and Hawaii mentioned in an older interview article with Ben Smith.
Gino Under wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:00 pm
Delta might be the first North American airline to operate into LCY. Unless Air Canada has similar ideas and gets a few aircraft early.
Not sure if there’s a business case for it with the train service from Heathrow to London, but it would be really neat to see AC start YYZ-YUL-LCY!
the AC fins wont be coming ETOPS ready, so you can rule out Hawaii and LCY.
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Re: C series

Post by Gino Under » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:58 pm

C Series recently completed ETOPS cert. Air Canada ‘should’ get aircraft that are Cat IIIb Autoland capable and ETOPS capable, (I believe 180 minutes) if that’s what they’ve ordered. Especially if the aircraft aren’t delivered till December 2019.
CSeries in an all business class config (42 pax) is a very good business case should AC decide something along those lines to serve EGLC.
The aeroplane could also be used to revise “regional” flying if AC so chooses. They could seriously reduce the size of the “Express” brand. Easily.
Jet Blue are fired up. Can’t wait to put it into service. The economics alone have them drooling.
It seems that the fog of uncertainty surrounding the Cseries is starting to clear and Airbus have even mentioned the possibility of a 500 series, that it (A250) could one day replace the A320 line.

Gino
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