The Air Canada OTS thread

Discuss topics relating to Air Canada.

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your flight time ?

500+ PIC JET
31
5%
500+ PIC JET 2 CREW
74
11%
500+ PIC TURBOPROP 2 CREW
121
18%
1000+ F/O JET/TURBOPROP 2 CREW
103
15%
Total Time 1500/2000
29
4%
2000/3000
54
8%
3000/ More
272
40%
 
Total votes: 684

PT6onH20
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by PT6onH20 »

Still no word for me....going to be the 1 year mark in about 2 weeks. Anything stirring?

Know of 2 people that had their in person interviews about 3 weeks ago
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dashtrash1
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by dashtrash1 »

Just a rumour, but I heard the last class for the summer is in early May with about 8 or 9 people. Classes should resume around October from the sounds of it.
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altiplano
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by altiplano »

Looks like 50 new hires total in March... Quite a varied group - a lot of experience.

Several ex RCAF, 20+ year Jazz guys, and a few OTS and other express brand guys with lots of time put in getting here... the few outta Jazz with 2 - 3 years in a seat directly out of flight college have to be counting their lucky stars...
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

Yeah I've heard these guys and girls are stepping into some pretty heavy metal right out of the -8 and like you said Alti, three years in aviation.

767 Rouge as an entry level AC spot...

Interesting. Great on them!

S.
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rudder
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by rudder »

AC has lots of $55k 767 FO's. Even CargoJet pays more....
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Old fella
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Old fella »

rudder wrote:AC has lots of $55k 767 FO's. Even CargoJet pays more....
Pardon my ignorance but AC pays it's guys/gals this "shitshow" starting salary to fly a long haul airliner which a B767 is, to international destinations. FFS, my pension is better than that and I am old and cranky..............
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Jean-Pierre
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Jean-Pierre »

It is basically a place to get jet time before going overseas now. Most company hiring Canadian pilot overseas will pay more than double that starting salary for widebody and that double factor will continue all the way up to when you are a senior captain making double what an Air Canada one does.
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altiplano
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by altiplano »

Funny, I don't see the resignations on the bid from everyone going overseas.

You have to be pretty desperate going to the ME right now and good luck doing a long career in China...

Cathay would be the best expat job for anything beyond a few years IMO right now but they're losing money and probably down to "Z" scale wawcon... and you don't need jet time to go there anyway... You're never going to get NA based so better m explain it to your wife they have to pack up their career and raise your fam in HKG.

Anyways I honestly do hope some take their rating and pack it up, probably help the pay.
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Black_Tusk
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Black_Tusk »

Not everyone chases dollar signs Jean Pierre. I'll take a future in Canada with lower pay than oodles of cash and a life living in China/India/SE Asia/Sandbox etc.
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infiniteregulus
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by infiniteregulus »

I think the argument is why these wages have gotten to that in the first place for a widebody "major airline" position. Surely there's a solution and end to this.
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altiplano
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by altiplano »

infiniteregulus wrote:I think the argument is why these wages have gotten to that in the first place for a widebody "major airline" position. Surely there's a solution and end to this.
In my opinion, the reasons are:

1. ACPA leadership has given away the farm and sold out everyone south of a widebody or rouge captain seat. They are fckng us and our future while smiling and aggressively selling a management agenda.

2. The apathy and disinterest in the group is astonishing... a lack of critical thinking, meager vote turnouts, selfishness without thought is driving member decisions.

3. The one time we did stand up together and kicked these a-holes to the curb; Harper, Raitt, Rovinescu, the 27, et al conspired and fcked us... now it's the same pricks running it again. Unbelievable... and we are paying them to do it! Short memories.

This job, this profession has been hit hard the past 5 years. Very hard. I hope every prospective new hire following this thread knows AC is still a good job, but it was better. And they want to take more from us and are always actively trying - that's managements job though... it's what they do... the problem is our own union leadership is advancing their own prospects by enabling it. Get here​ with your eyes open and don't sit on the curb and allow it just because you are new... These guys running ACPA right now are the ones that gave away your pension and stuck you with 4 year flat pay. Keep that in mind when you listen to them sell you on what they want to give away next.

Again, only my opinions/observations.
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sstaurus
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by sstaurus »

So the grumblings of AC following WJ down the ALPA road may have some legs to stand on...
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rudder
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by rudder »

Old fella wrote:
Pardon my ignorance but AC pays it's guys/gals this "shitshow" starting salary to fly a long haul airliner which a B767 is, to international destinations. FFS, my pension is better than that and I am old and cranky..............
2nd year 767 FO pay at UA/DL/AA is approx US$150/hr. AC pays approx C$67/hr. The US FO gets a 16.5% company contribution to pension. At AC it is a max 6% company contribution for second year.

To say that AC has won the lottery when it comes to pilot cost savings vs the International competition is an understatement.
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BlueSkies12
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by BlueSkies12 »

I condone none of what's happening with AC, BUT, guys with 4.5 years seniority are getting 320 Captain making $185000.
If you like redeyes and Deer Lake :shock:
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rudder
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by rudder »

BlueSkies12 wrote:I condone none of what's happening with AC, BUT, guys with 4.5 years seniority are getting 320 Captain making $185000.
If you like redeyes and Deer Lake :shock:
Junior Delta MD80 CA NYC has less than one year of service.

1/2 of the 15,000 AA pilots retire over next 9 years. A pilot hired today at AA will be a WB CA in less than 9 years.

The U.S. is light years ahead of Canada in terms of career progression.
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loopa
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by loopa »

gtanorth wrote:
loopa wrote:Psych and cog evals at express carriers now for new hires?

Wonder if this means AC is gearing up towards an official flow through program barring applicants from express instead of coming into express and so-to-speak be stuck?

Can anyone else confirm or deny this info?

Thanks
The change at Express for psych.cog.med.drug is geared towards driving the success rate on the PML as high as possible. Both AC and Express want to flow as high of a ratio (interviewed vs. hired @ AC) as they can. This is because most people leave Express after the interview successful or not. The PML ratio is based on hired. If an Express sends 5 a GS with a 50% success rate that is 10 people out of their company with a 100% success rate that's 5 people out. You will definitely see all Express parallel AC hiring requirements as much as possible. They are all moving very quickly to ensure they can meet the PML requirements, the best way to do that is to hire people that AC wants to hire.
I see,

I think a lot of this can be averted if AC simply took over the hiring for "express" and that express was deemed the place you go, to end up at Air Canada with no if's or but's. If you're good for express being responsible for the same maple leaf that is on the mainline planes, working for less, working harder, and working under more pressure, then you'd be deemed "suitable" for mainline when your number is called. Not sure why Air Canada has elected to complicate the process so much with their come to express, with a "shot" at mainline process. I'm not in the background, so I'm sure this makes sense to the bean counters somewhere.

Best of luck to all express guys/gals
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BlueSkies12
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by BlueSkies12 »

rudder wrote:
BlueSkies12 wrote:I condone none of what's happening with AC, BUT, guys with 4.5 years seniority are getting 320 Captain making $185000.
If you like redeyes and Deer Lake :shock:
Junior Delta MD80 CA NYC has less than one year of service.

1/2 of the 15,000 AA pilots retire over next 9 years. A pilot hired today at AA will be a WB CA in less than 9 years.

The U.S. is light years ahead of Canada in terms of career progression.
Yah but most of us aren't American citizens. I think the point was Canada vs. Overseas.
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

It's that industry flat pay that's really holding me back from being excited and the WAWCON following that for the next few years chasing tin for money.

I WANT to be excited, but I'm having a hard time getting behind AC and I grew up with it in my family.

I'm more excited flying a little jet down south 2 or 3 times a month, same time zone, making 5 year salary and some extra PDs.

I know career progression is relatively limited with what I do currently, but everytime I am asked why I'm not excited about AC, it gets me choked up like I've made a bad choice. I feel AC is asking a lot of investment now, for an eventual career 30 years in, when you're burned out and are ready to give up the ghost.

I think if AC could improve the initial 10 year salary and get rid of that 4 year flat salary to start and put career on par with U.S progression, I could see myself and many others getting really excited about it again.

I'm nervous about doing an interview now, because I am going to have a lot of trouble feigning excitement about going back to KD (even though I secretly enjoy it). But in all seriousness, how is AC Canada's best and the ruler with which we measure the rest of the industry. It goes to show why we beat up on companies like GGN, EVAS, etc.

Perhaps I'm missing the mark?

Anyone able to give a little pep talk to help build that excitement? The guys I know there don't have much to say unfortunately. That's all they've​ ever known and they do more complaining than anything else.

I'd like to be excited again.

S.
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altiplano
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by altiplano »

loopa wrote:working harder, and working under more pressure
Seriously?

Working hard and working under pressure, sure, but where do you get the idea they work any harder or under more pressure than us?
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Dark Helmet »

rudder wrote:
Old fella wrote:
Pardon my ignorance but AC pays it's guys/gals this "shitshow" starting salary to fly a long haul airliner which a B767 is, to international destinations. FFS, my pension is better than that and I am old and cranky..............
2nd year 767 FO pay at UA/DL/AA is approx US$150/hr. AC pays approx C$67/hr. The US FO gets a 16.5% company contribution to pension. At AC it is a max 6% company contribution for second year.

To say that AC has won the lottery when it comes to pilot cost savings vs the International competition is an understatement.
Unless you are a relatively Senior Jazz pilot coming over from PML 1 :wink: :smt040
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