The Air Canada OTS thread

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your flight time ?

500+ PIC JET
20
4%
500+ PIC JET 2 CREW
48
11%
500+ PIC TURBOPROP 2 CREW
79
18%
1000+ F/O JET/TURBOPROP 2 CREW
67
15%
Total Time 1500/2000
18
4%
2000/3000
31
7%
3000/ More
184
41%
 
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JBI
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#326 Post by JBI » Thu May 11, 2017 1:51 pm

Apologies if this was posted before, does anyone know the exact wording of the PML with respect to hiring from AC Express carriers?

-80% exactly (per class or over the course of a certain time period)?
-UP TO 80%?
-MINIMUM 80%?

Not that it matters too much, just something I'm not sure about.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#327 Post by Rowdy » Thu May 11, 2017 9:56 pm

'Air Canada's objective is to recruit up to 80% of its pilot requirement from its CPA Carriers, subject always to the applicant meeting the Air Canada qualifications and successfully passing the Air Canada selection process.'

And

'The Pilot Mobility Arrangement will be implemented so as to seek to hire a proportional number of pilots from each CPA Carrier pursuant to its terms subject to a sufficient number of qualified pilots passing the Air Canada hiring process.'

Right from the Company Memo.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#328 Post by Rowdy » Thu May 11, 2017 9:58 pm

altiplano wrote:
non-express hires appear to be mostly coming out of military, transat or westjet.
I believe that will only ramp up...
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#329 Post by JBI » Fri May 12, 2017 5:50 am

Rowdy wrote:'Air Canada's objective is to recruit up to 80% of its pilot requirement from its CPA Carriers, subject always to the applicant meeting the Air Canada qualifications and successfully passing the Air Canada selection process.'
Thanks for the info! It sounds like AC has done a very good job of keeping to that 80%. However, with that language it seems like they have given themselves some leeway to hire more OTS if necessary.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#330 Post by gtanorth » Fri May 12, 2017 6:12 am

JBI wrote:
Rowdy wrote:'Air Canada's objective is to recruit up to 80% of its pilot requirement from its CPA Carriers, subject always to the applicant meeting the Air Canada qualifications and successfully passing the Air Canada selection process.'
Thanks for the info! It sounds like AC has done a very good job of keeping to that 80%. However, with that language it seems like they have given themselves some leeway to hire more OTS if necessary.

The protection to go below the 80% is in case the express carriers can not provide the flow due to their own scheduling needs. Of the 20% remaining 50% is the "target" for the military.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#331 Post by fish4life » Fri May 12, 2017 9:03 am

I have been hearing more and more recently of jazz cancelling flights due to lack of crews so perhaps that 80% tipping point is here.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#332 Post by mijbil » Sat May 13, 2017 12:32 pm

They should get a few more from the military. Looks like the generals are busy shooting themselves in the foot at least as far as pilot retention in the RCAF. Old rules were, in exchange for a really good training program that gave you about 200 hours, you did 5 years post wings (graduation) of obligatory service. Think of it like a training bond but in time versus $$. Then the obligatory time was upped to 7 years. That still hasn't gone away but now they have added on another 3 years post OTU, where an OTU is an operational training unit like Hercs or C17 or whatever. This also applies to those who got a desk slot for a few years and need to be re-trained back up and not just to those fresh out of the pipeline. Is the 3 years concurrent or consecutive to the 7? I don't know. As I read elsewhere, building walls to keep people in will not work. I guess that that is good news for AC mainline as I had also heard through unsubstantiated rumours that one of the reasons for the "please wait until fall" email that many of us got, was that the feeder airlines like Jazz are feeling the pinch and need time to build up a trained pilot group. 2017 is shaping up to be a really interesting year.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#333 Post by skypirate88 » Sat May 13, 2017 4:05 pm

fish4life wrote:I have been hearing more and more recently of jazz cancelling flights due to lack of crews so perhaps that 80% tipping point is here.
We have cancelled several flights. By the sounds of it though, AC isn't planning any courses over the summer, which should allow us to catch up in the training department. We are planning 20 new hires every 2 weeks to keep up with PML migration.

Where we will find these pilots is anyone's guess.

AC isn't going to compromise their regional lift, but they have to hire sufficient pilots from the Express brand to keep the resumes coming to Jazz, GGN and Sky.

Very interesting times around here.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#334 Post by Jean-Pierre » Sat May 13, 2017 5:21 pm

It doesn't make sense that they told OTS applicant to wait until fall because Jazz has run out of pilot. If anything they should do all OTS course over summer.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#335 Post by Rowdy » Sat May 13, 2017 8:36 pm

Jean-Pierre wrote:It doesn't make sense that they told OTS applicant to wait until fall because Jazz has run out of pilot. If anything they should do all OTS course over summer.

Historically, AC does not run initial courses in the summer months. It has nothing to do with allowing the express carriers 'to catch up' or with any OTS hiring.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#336 Post by gtanorth » Sun May 14, 2017 5:58 am

Rowdy wrote:
Jean-Pierre wrote:It doesn't make sense that they told OTS applicant to wait until fall because Jazz has run out of pilot. If anything they should do all OTS course over summer.

Historically, AC does not run initial courses in the summer months. It has nothing to do with allowing the express carriers 'to catch up' or with any OTS hiring.
AC will not run OTS GS - that would weaken the PML program they have with Express. The PML is the best recruitment tool AC has. Bring the pilots in early and young.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#337 Post by atphat » Sun May 14, 2017 6:05 am

The PML has nothing to do with being a recruitment tool. It was used to lower costs at Jazz. AC has never and currently does not have trouble finding applicants. Also, this will probably change in the future but the ex-Jazz recruits are hardly young fresh go getters. They are experienced airline pilots.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#338 Post by gtanorth » Sun May 14, 2017 6:55 am

atphat wrote:The PML has nothing to do with being a recruitment tool. It was used to lower costs at Jazz. AC has never and currently does not have trouble finding applicants. Also, this will probably change in the future but the ex-Jazz recruits are hardly young fresh go getters. They are experienced airline pilots.
I think you are viewing things as 1 airline - AC views themselves as several airlines - AC, Rouge, Jazz, GGN, Sky and even EVAS. All costs belong to AC. Attrition, recruitment, and training costs all flow up.

The PML is designed to lower the cost at Express by attracting pilots with the promise of an interview at AC. Those savings are passed on to AC. The PML is used to control attrition at Express and those savings are passed on to AC. The PML is designed to flow pilots from Express to AC and those recruitment and training savings are kept by AC.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#339 Post by Rowdy » Sun May 14, 2017 3:22 pm

Gta north has it spot on.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#340 Post by Gonzodriver » Sat May 27, 2017 6:53 pm

mijbil wrote:They should get a few more from the military. Looks like the generals are busy shooting themselves in the foot at least as far as pilot retention in the RCAF. Old rules were, in exchange for a really good training program that gave you about 200 hours, you did 5 years post wings (graduation) of obligatory service. Think of it like a training bond but in time versus $$. Then the obligatory time was upped to 7 years. That still hasn't gone away but now they have added on another 3 years post OTU, where an OTU is an operational training unit like Hercs or C17 or whatever. This also applies to those who got a desk slot for a few years and need to be re-trained back up and not just to those fresh out of the pipeline. Is the 3 years concurrent or consecutive to the 7? I don't know. As I read elsewhere, building walls to keep people in will not work. I guess that that is good news for AC mainline as I had also heard through unsubstantiated rumours that one of the reasons for the "please wait until fall" email that many of us got, was that the feeder airlines like Jazz are feeling the pinch and need time to build up a trained pilot group. 2017 is shaping up to be a really interesting year.

The 3 years of oblig service runs concurrently with the 7 years restricted release post wings. However for those of us that will be passed that point you need to make sure that you have enough time remaining on your current contract to cover those 3 years. So if you only have 2 yrs left then you need to sign on for another minimum contract of 5 years make it a grand total of 7 years that you are committing to overall. And at any time after you finish your OTU they could pull you from flying and out you at a desk job and you can't do anything about it. This will not solve the problem they have with retention and will only force more ppl to leave. IMO.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#341 Post by infiniteregulus » Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:06 pm

Soooo, are there no courses running over the summer? Been pretty quiet lately
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#342 Post by jpilot77 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:18 pm

No courses till the fall is what I've heard from numerous sources.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#343 Post by jimmy24 » Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:49 pm

Next tentative course date is for September 4th, with 60-100 more pilots to be hired before the end of this year.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#344 Post by infiniteregulus » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:51 pm

Nice!
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#345 Post by dashtrash1 » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:28 am

Just a rumour, but I heard from someone in the training dept about there being a potential July course.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#346 Post by Spruce Moose » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:30 pm

Is it too early to gauge how many will be hired next year?
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#347 Post by AllClutch » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:12 pm

~235 off the last equipment bid. Could be a few more depending on how they roll out the 737 FO spots
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#348 Post by Elessar_44 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 7:41 am

July course rumour is true, I was offered a spot for July 17. Very excited! Unexpected too haha
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#349 Post by Maple_30 » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:40 am

AllClutch wrote:~235 off the last equipment bid. Could be a few more depending on how they roll out the 737 FO spots
Wow! That would mean ~350 opened spots from now to the end of 2018?
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

#350 Post by groundpilot » Sat Jun 17, 2017 3:23 pm

Elessar_44 wrote:July course rumour is true, I was offered a spot for July 17. Very excited! Unexpected too haha
Nice!

Congratulations!
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