The Air Canada OTS thread

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your flight time ?

500+ PIC JET
37
4%
500+ PIC JET 2 CREW
101
10%
500+ PIC TURBOPROP 2 CREW
154
16%
1000+ F/O JET/TURBOPROP 2 CREW
160
17%
Total Time 1500/2000
50
5%
2000/3000
106
11%
3000/ More
361
37%
 
Total votes: 969

aV1aTOr
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by aV1aTOr »

confusedalot wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:16 pm Food for thought......

Imagine a HR person, after getting their Tim Horton extra large double double, who had a previous bad day, who does not particularly like their job, has the task of sifting through resumes that match ''the numbers''. That call all depends on that HR person.

I personally think it is a lottery.......

It would be nice if all in the world would be based on merit, but the world does not work like that.
As you've mentioned, you've never worked for Air Canada, so your overly simplistic assumptions of the recruiting process can be forgiven. In fact, the recruiting process is very in depth and comprehensive, and I can assure you in no way does anybody's resume pass through the hands of someone "with a Timmies having a bad day" who randomly chucks applications in the trash for no reason other than said bad day.
In fact, there is a points based system each application is qualified by, which takes into account everything from variety of experience, to education (type and quantity), to amount of hours and type of hours flown, and these qualifiers narrow down the pile to the ones selected for interview. Internal recommends also play a part at this stage shining the spotlight on applications with an internal flight ops reference. Those files are de-identified to remove any bias towards age/gender/ethic background/family associations, and they go before the hiring board who makes their selections based on the already mentioned qualifiers, along with psych eval scores, cog test scores, references, interview notes, and of course with a green light from the pre-hire medical check.

As much as some prefer to tell themselves it is simply a lottery, it may feel that way, and I can assure you from the the inside as well it may seem that way, having seen great candidates not get selected. But the fact is the airline takes it's hiring process much more seriously than that.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by ActionAxson »

AOW wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:06 pm The degree/aviation diploma seems to be a big help this time around... But I am far from an expert!
Do 4 year degrees and Aviation Diplomas carry the same weight?
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by confusedalot »

aV1aTOr wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:06 pm
confusedalot wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:16 pm Food for thought......

Imagine a HR person, after getting their Tim Horton extra large double double, who had a previous bad day, who does not particularly like their job, has the task of sifting through resumes that match ''the numbers''. That call all depends on that HR person.

I personally think it is a lottery.......

It would be nice if all in the world would be based on merit, but the world does not work like that.
As you've mentioned, you've never worked for Air Canada, so your overly simplistic assumptions of the recruiting process can be forgiven. In fact, the recruiting process is very in depth and comprehensive, and I can assure you in no way does anybody's resume pass through the hands of someone "with a Timmies having a bad day" who randomly chucks applications in the trash for no reason other than said bad day.
In fact, there is a points based system each application is qualified by, which takes into account everything from variety of experience, to education (type and quantity), to amount of hours and type of hours flown, and these qualifiers narrow down the pile to the ones selected for interview. Internal recommends also play a part at this stage shining the spotlight on applications with an internal flight ops reference. Those files are de-identified to remove any bias towards age/gender/ethic background/family associations, and they go before the hiring board who makes their selections based on the already mentioned qualifiers, along with psych eval scores, cog test scores, references, interview notes, and of course with a green light from the pre-hire medical check.

As much as some prefer to tell themselves it is simply a lottery, it may feel that way, and I can assure you from the the inside as well it may seem that way, having seen great candidates not get selected. But the fact is the airline takes it's hiring process much more seriously than that.
You need to read through this thread and then justify the system to those who never got calls despite their qualifications, not to me.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by confusedalot »

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Last edited by confusedalot on Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by confusedalot »

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Last edited by confusedalot on Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by atphat »

No one needs to justify anything to anyone.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by altiplano »

It is what it is.

Doesn't have to be justified to anyone...

Hundreds, even thousands of applications come in when the application window opens. does one get missed or fall behind a desk from time to time? Surely it must. We all know great people, excellent pilots who didn't get hired, didn't even get an interview... inexpiable as it may seem...

Maybe they didn't get noticed because their resume was formatted poorly and the programs HR uses to go through it didn't pick it up?
Maybe there were typos or grammatical errors in their cover letter.
Maybe they said the wrong things in the interview?
ie. took the prep course... were cocky.... or unprepared
F-d up on the psych eval?
ie. tried to over represent themselves, lied
F-d up on the cog test?
Maybe a reference sewered them?

Or more than likely...

Maybe despite their abilities, their education, their background, there were other applicants who, maybe didn't score as high on education or total flight time or aren't as nice all around guys, but picked up points for a second language, an internal reference, a great interview, a clean psych eval, had a long history of applying and updating their application, and got bonus points for who knows what else they are looking for... ie. you don't get a job at IBM in a black suit

Those point totals are what get you hired, and as significant as they are, education and flight time are but 2 things of many.

It is what it is...
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by NotDirty! »

altiplano wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:05 am It is what it is.

Doesn't have to be justified to anyone...

Hundreds, even thousands of applications come in when the application window opens. does one get missed or fall behind a desk from time to time? Surely it must. We all know great people, excellent pilots who didn't get hired, didn't even get an interview... inexpiable as it may seem...

Maybe they didn't get noticed because their resume was formatted poorly and the programs HR uses to go through it didn't pick it up?
Maybe there were typos or grammatical errors in their cover letter.
Maybe they said the wrong things in the interview?
ie. took the prep course... were cocky.... or unprepared
F-d up on the psych eval?
ie. tried to over represent themselves, lied
F-d up on the cog test?
Maybe a reference sewered them?

Or more than likely...

Maybe despite their abilities, their education, their background, there were other applicants who, maybe didn't score as high on education or total flight time or aren't as nice all around guys, but picked up points for a second language, an internal reference, a great interview, a clean psych eval, had a long history of applying and updating their application, and got bonus points for who knows what else they are looking for... ie. you don't get a job at IBM in a black suit

Those point totals are what get you hired, and as significant as they are, education and flight time are but 2 things of many.

It is what it is...
Exactly. I got PFO'd in 2012. I have a degree, had decent experience, etc. At the same time they hired some of my coworkers who had less experience than I did. Do I blame them for not choosing me??? NO!

I understand that picking the right candidate is hard. I know that maybe I just didn't interview as well as the other pilots that they interviewed that day, and maybe I could have done better at the cognitive testing, or maybe some of my answers on the psych eval didn't look right (I agreed with the statement "I believe in law and order", but I disagreed with "I have never broken the law", as I know that I may have exceeded speed limits on a few occasions, etc.). In any case they decided they didn't want me... I imagined that the reason it took the full 6 weeks to inform me was because I was close, but I will never know.

So maybe someday they will hire me, or maybe they won't. I have learned a lot in the time since I did the interview, and while my career would have been different, I can't say for sure that it would have been better, had they hired me back then. I am still young enough that I could be a successful applicant in the future, but I don't let rejection from AC be my defining experience. I still work for the same great company that I worked for when I interviewed at AC, and they have treated me very well.

So now I know what I am up against, and maybe the outcome will be different if/when I decide to try again. I don't blame anyone other than myself, and I am ok with that.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by confusedalot »

If you take a few steps back from the situation, which is a very hard thing to do, it is numerically not possible to hire every candidate that gets called. (I think the ratio may be 1 hire per 3 interviews, maybe someone can chime in on that)

It does not mean that you do not qualify, not in the least, it means that choices had to be made, they can't hire everyone. To my mind, the screening process only eliminates the very few who may have some sort of issue.............

My 2 cents worth anyway...
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by jim67994 »

For pure speculation purposes, what do you think are the chances of me getting an interview? I meet all of their requirements and all of the desirables with the exception of 705 time. I have 8000 hours. Any input is appreciated!
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Sharklasers »

jim67994 wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:47 am For pure speculation purposes, what do you think are the chances of me getting an interview? I meet all of their requirements and all of the desirables with the exception of 705 time. I have 8000 hours. Any input is appreciated!
36.25%
Do you have a degree? Is the hours 704 or 703 with some pic?
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by jim67994 »

I have a degree, most of my time is MPIC 703.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by groundpilot »

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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by groundpilot »

jim67994 wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:47 am For pure speculation purposes, what do you think are the chances of me getting an interview? I meet all of their requirements and all of the desirables with the exception of 705 time. I have 8000 hours. Any input is appreciated!
High
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Sharklasers »

jim67994 wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:47 am For pure speculation purposes, what do you think are the chances of me getting an interview? I meet all of their requirements and all of the desirables with the exception of 705 time. I have 8000 hours. Any input is appreciated!


Pretty good, try to get an internal reference.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by jim67994 »

I have an internal reference as well.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by '97 Tercel »

Ok if my math is correct you're at 72.3% of getting an interview....


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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by confusedalot »

Actually, yer calculation puts it at 72.3147642 (the geometrical ''pie'' constant''), since the variables do not capture the arc sinus uncertainty of human intervention. :lol:

But it is pretty darn close. :)
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Air.Field »

That's actually the mathematical calculation they use to hire someone :P
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by '97 Tercel »

:lol:
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