The Air Canada OTS thread

Discuss topics relating to Air Canada.

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your flight time ?

500+ PIC JET
30
5%
500+ PIC JET 2 CREW
70
11%
500+ PIC TURBOPROP 2 CREW
103
17%
1000+ F/O JET/TURBOPROP 2 CREW
94
15%
Total Time 1500/2000
28
5%
2000/3000
45
7%
3000/ More
250
40%
 
Total votes: 620

altiplano
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by altiplano » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:41 pm

1. The first thing I said was it's too low.

2. I said more "like" which is an epistemic modality that signals to the reader a lesser degree of certainty in the exactness of my number.

3. These aren't the income amounts people are making. I don't know how to communicate that to you any more effectively. Everyone takes home more.

4. Annual salary increases are part of the contract. That's just what it is, and it isn't irrelevant.

5. I'm not cherry picking. Do people want accurate details of the package or not? I guess I could start to add in transport allowance to go to work, check in check out allowance, free coffee at flight planning, shoes and luggage, paid medicals, TC fees, and dare I say per diems... now I'd be cherry picking... Pension, profit share, training pay, are all very real. Or should I mention CPP, EI, and and tax rates by province also? I thought that those things were understood as they are common knowledge in our society.

6. "I just don't appreciate", yeah that makes both of us... I don't appreciate statements like "$40K for 4 years" I corrected it, I was reasonably accurate... conservatively accurate in terms of whole package... you don't like it? Start voting "No"... Do the current survey and let them have it. Tell your friends too.
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RRJetPilot
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by RRJetPilot » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:30 pm

Well lets stick with FACTS.

First year Gross 2018 as per T4 was 69K

Full medical covered for family.

Per diems on top.

NO overtime or extra work done at all.
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mixturerich
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by mixturerich » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:32 pm

RRJetPilot wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:30 pm
Well lets stick with FACTS.

First year Gross 2018 as per T4 was 69K

Full medical covered for family.

Per diems on top.

NO overtime or extra work done at all.
That’s not so bad. I don’t see what all the fuss is about. That altiplano guy (with +3750 posts maybe you should go focus on enjoying your life instead of posting online, although maybe this is the only place you think people will actually listen to you), daniel cooper (and the rest of the avcanada AC haters) are a strange breed. They’ll say anything to try and make themselves feel better.
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altiplano
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by altiplano » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:50 pm

Hi. Go #uck yourself. I enjoy life just fine.

Been posting for 15 years here, and maybe it's a bit of a habit at times, maybe blowing off steam and reading what assholes like me and you have to say. Sure I make a few posts here and there and they've added up. I'm just trying to set the record straight, maybe help a guy here or there on PMs and offer my opinion... and you know what it is a free fucking country.

What the #uck are you doing other than pissing on me? Honestly, I think you have some good posts... just another asshole I guess...
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BenniFlyer
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by BenniFlyer » Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:50 pm

altiplano wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:41 pm
1. The first thing I said was it's too low.

2. I said more "like" which is an epistemic modality that signals to the reader a lesser degree of certainty in the exactness of my number.

3. These aren't the income amounts people are making. I don't know how to communicate that to you any more effectively. Everyone takes home more.

4. Annual salary increases are part of the contract. That's just what it is, and it isn't irrelevant.

5. I'm not cherry picking. Do people want accurate details of the package or not? I guess I could start to add in transport allowance to go to work, check in check out allowance, free coffee at flight planning, shoes and luggage, paid medicals, TC fees, and dare I say per diems... now I'd be cherry picking... Pension, profit share, training pay, are all very real. Or should I mention CPP, EI, and and tax rates by province also? I thought that those things were understood as they are common knowledge in our society.

6. "I just don't appreciate", yeah that makes both of us... I don't appreciate statements like "$40K for 4 years" I corrected it, I was reasonably accurate... conservatively accurate in terms of whole package... you don't like it? Start voting "No"... Do the current survey and let them have it. Tell your friends too.
I’m not trying to start a fight or see who can be more accurate when researching data. I’ve read quite a few posts and we agree on quite a bit and I learn quite a bit from reading some as well.

On your point #3 are you referring to your original comment about flat pay being 60k rising to 85k? You’re trying to communicate effectively but you say that was based on the 75 hour guarantee which is why I was confused. The amount people have taken home as jetpilot alluded to, is much more. If we lose some flying, or your airplane is grounded...then you make that 75 hour guarantee which wouldn’t be that same T4 as jetpilot mentioned.

The main point I’m trying to make is flat pay isn’t a fair amount for a widebody FO. I still haven’t heard a good reason to willfully bid that position as opposed to the RP seat or a narrow body FO seat. I can see it if you’re close to coming off flat pay, but in the first 3 years it does not make sense to me.
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altiplano
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by altiplano » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:19 pm

1. The first thing I said was it's too low.

Have a good night.
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FL320
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by FL320 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:30 am

That altiplano guy (with +3750 posts maybe you should go focus on enjoying your life instead of posting online, although maybe this is the only place you think people will actually listen to you
+300 on Pprune and airlinepilotcentral; fortunately the max is still grounded until feb 2020 😅

Back to the topic; as a new hire and if you’re a gambler: go to Transat instead and get paid 55 760 $/69 535 $/$ 82 610 $/89 898 $ (plus almost all the same extras) the first 4 years and then wait for AC.
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altiplano
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by altiplano » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:07 am

So I'm old and have been around... I'm still not the Top Poster.
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Victory
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Victory » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:22 am

FL320 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:30 am
go to Transat instead and get paid 55 760 $/69 535 $/$ 82 610 $/89 898 $ (plus almost all the same extras) the first 4 years and then wait for AC.
That doesn't really seem much better. Does Transat have profit sharing too? That's how people are making $70k in their first year at AC.
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Transition9er2
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Transition9er2 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:51 am

Wondering if Iflyroads or any other AC insider has information regarding upcoming class sizes now that the Max is off the schedule for another month. Is it safe to say we can expect groups of 10-15 for the next few classes?

Thanks,

T.
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BenniFlyer
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by BenniFlyer » Thu Oct 17, 2019 10:45 am

Victory wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:22 am
FL320 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:30 am
go to Transat instead and get paid 55 760 $/69 535 $/$ 82 610 $/89 898 $ (plus almost all the same extras) the first 4 years and then wait for AC.
That doesn't really seem much better. Does Transat have profit sharing too? That's how people are making $70k in their first year at AC.
Hoping for more record profits to pad the profit share...that’s gambling in another way! I agree a better gamble than going to Transat, but still hard to pencil that into the budget planning with signs of recession flashing around.
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mixturerich
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by mixturerich » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:00 pm

altiplano wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:50 pm
Hi. Go #uck yourself. I enjoy life just fine.

Been posting for 15 years here, and maybe it's a bit of a habit at times, maybe blowing off steam and reading what assholes like me and you have to say. Sure I make a few posts here and there and they've added up. I'm just trying to set the record straight, maybe help a guy here or there on PMs and offer my opinion... and you know what it is a free fucking country.

What the #uck are you doing other than pissing on me? Honestly, I think you have some good posts... just another asshole I guess...
Nice play with the victim card but have you ever heard the expression, “if everyone else is an asshole, you’re probably an asshole?” Say what you want to say, but your ignorance, intolerance and hot-headedness is evident in other threads, and probably the other websites you post on too. Anyone that pulls the “it’s a free fucking country” line is usually a real mouthpiece, and it’s not the first time you’ve said it. Good day sir.
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altiplano
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by altiplano » Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:55 pm

mixturerich wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:00 pm
altiplano wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:50 pm
Hi. Go #uck yourself. I enjoy life just fine.

Been posting for 15 years here, and maybe it's a bit of a habit at times, maybe blowing off steam and reading what assholes like me and you have to say. Sure I make a few posts here and there and they've added up. I'm just trying to set the record straight, maybe help a guy here or there on PMs and offer my opinion... and you know what it is a free fucking country.

What the #uck are you doing other than pissing on me? Honestly, I think you have some good posts... just another asshole I guess...
Nice play with the victim card but have you ever heard the expression, “if everyone else is an asshole, you’re probably an asshole?” Say what you want to say, but your ignorance, intolerance and hot-headedness is evident in other threads, and probably the other websites you post on too. Anyone that pulls the “it’s a free fucking country” line is usually a real mouthpiece, and it’s not the first time you’ve said it. Good day sir.
No victim here, not sure where you get that.

I don't know what your problem is though, can you be more specific. Here you're directly insulting me unprovoked.

And yes, as I said "assholes like me" and you too... lots of types of assholes though... I use the term loosely...

Intolerance? For identity politics? Political correctness? You got me. But it's a free country and people can be whoever they want to be, I have no problem with people being whatever they want to be.

You're read on me couldn't be further off the mark... But no surprise there... so off you go, back to espousing your professionalism, while complaining about the French, and dreaming of "smashing Eastern European flight attendants"... classy...
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dashtrash1
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by dashtrash1 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:00 pm

Transition9er2 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:51 am
Wondering if Iflyroads or any other AC insider has information regarding upcoming class sizes now that the Max is off the schedule for another month. Is it safe to say we can expect groups of 10-15 for the next few classes?

Thanks,

T.
From my understanding the next class coming up has 40 in it. Take it with a grain of salt though as it's just a rumour.
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mixturerich
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by mixturerich » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:16 pm

altiplano wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 4:55 pm
mixturerich wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:00 pm
altiplano wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:50 pm
Hi. Go #uck yourself. I enjoy life just fine.

Been posting for 15 years here, and maybe it's a bit of a habit at times, maybe blowing off steam and reading what assholes like me and you have to say. Sure I make a few posts here and there and they've added up. I'm just trying to set the record straight, maybe help a guy here or there on PMs and offer my opinion... and you know what it is a free fucking country.

What the #uck are you doing other than pissing on me? Honestly, I think you have some good posts... just another asshole I guess...
Nice play with the victim card but have you ever heard the expression, “if everyone else is an asshole, you’re probably an asshole?” Say what you want to say, but your ignorance, intolerance and hot-headedness is evident in other threads, and probably the other websites you post on too. Anyone that pulls the “it’s a free fucking country” line is usually a real mouthpiece, and it’s not the first time you’ve said it. Good day sir.
No victim here, not sure where you get that.

I don't know what your problem is though, can you be more specific. Here you're directly insulting me unprovoked.

And yes, as I said "assholes like me" and you too... lots of types of assholes though... I use the term loosely...

Intolerance? For identity politics? Political correctness? You got me. But it's a free country and people can be whoever they want to be, I have no problem with people being whatever they want to be.

You're read on me couldn't be further off the mark... But no surprise there... so off you go, back to espousing your professionalism, while complaining about the French, and dreaming of "smashing Eastern European flight attendants"... classy...
Hey now, tread softly, for you tread on my dreams :cry:
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altiplano
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by altiplano » Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:24 pm

Dreams are right... first post 4 years ago as a 210 hour wannabe hoping to build hours... keep on dreaming asshole.
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dumbbell daddy
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by dumbbell daddy » Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:41 pm

Flat pay is crap. Not doubt about it. As a new hire, I think altiplano’s posts are pretty accurate. I think he paints a pretty realistic picture of what an average new hire could expect. Actually, if you’re fortunate to get Rouge 767 out of GS or transfer into Rouge on the 319 or 767, you’ll actually make more.

Also fringe benefits like life insurance, paid family medical/dental benefits, 33% ESOP, pension, B1 passes, ect add up when you compare to other companies. Most single, pimple faced, 25 year olds applying, really don’t give a shit about these benefits and only look at the basic pay at airlinepilot central.
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Transition9er2
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Transition9er2 » Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:13 pm

dashtrash1 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 5:00 pm
Transition9er2 wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 8:51 am
Wondering if Iflyroads or any other AC insider has information regarding upcoming class sizes now that the Max is off the schedule for another month. Is it safe to say we can expect groups of 10-15 for the next few classes?

Thanks,

T.
From my understanding the next class coming up has 40 in it. Take it with a grain of salt though as it's just a rumour.
Thanks for the note, are you referring to the Oct 21 class or the one following... Nov 11(ish)?

Some previous posts suggested the Oct 21 class was sitting around 14 total.

T.
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dashtrash1
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by dashtrash1 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:34 am

I just talked to a guy in training. The rumour was incorrect, I apologize for spreading it. The next course Monday is 14.

Sounds like they're expecting to be increasing the numbers by Nov or Dec.
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21cdnflyer
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by 21cdnflyer » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:20 pm

Some sort of email went out today? Can anyone confirm?
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Transition9er2
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Transition9er2 » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:03 pm

Hahaha ya, an email essentially touching base letting us know we’re in the pool and our file is still being reviewed by the hiring board.

When looking at my inbox, the first few words associated with this email were “our sincerest apologies”...

From my understanding there has been a lot of negative feedback on the application process from those who recently received job offers. Extended timelines and lack of communication were brought up, so I understand the thought behind this email but my god, it could not have been more poorly written considering some of us have been waiting months on pins and needles. Then when something finally does come through it starts off with “our sincerest apologies”... talk about a punch to the gut!!

Perhaps a new draft could be used in the future when they want to “touch base” with applicants.

T.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Stan Darsh » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:33 pm

I'm sure since JS left the company the recruitment team has more pressing things to deal with than considering the specific sensibilities of every applicant. Not long ago people sat in the "pool" for years with minimal correspondence... some were hired right away. Just live your life in the meantime.
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Dry Guy
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Dry Guy » Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:11 pm

Transition9er2 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:03 pm
Hahaha ya, an email essentially touching base letting us know we’re in the pool and our file is still being reviewed by the hiring board.
You're not in the pool.
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PostmasterGeneral
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by PostmasterGeneral » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:03 pm

Dry Guy wrote:
Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:11 pm
Transition9er2 wrote:
Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:03 pm
Hahaha ya, an email essentially touching base letting us know we’re in the pool and our file is still being reviewed by the hiring board.
You're not in the pool.
Was going to post the same thing. There is no “pool” really. Either you’re hired, or “we will review your application again when we run out of people more qualified than you.”
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Transition9er2
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Transition9er2 » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:04 pm

That’s a fair point, poor choice of wording on my part... no reference to being in “a pool”, it was more of a “we’re still reviewing your application” vibe to the email.

As always with this forum it seems, quick correction from the ones who care. Cheers fellas!

T
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