I heard there were direct entry ERJ Captains?

[Soar]

So I just attended CRM class and in the spirit of CRM, at the "water cooler" we talked about jobs back home. So an American collegue says that his friend just showed him and ad that AC was talking direct entry Captains on the ERJ?!?

I immediately called BS, but he was very adamant. Checking AC's website showed that they're not even accepting applications at the moment, let alone direct entry Captains.

Was any of this true?

[atphat]

One can bid whatever their seniority can hold. With approx 3500 pilots on the list, if you are 3500. And there is 1 unbid Emb 190 left seat position, It's yours. AC is not actively hiring emb captains. This has happened before around 10 years ago I believe.(new hires getting Emb CA). While the Emb left seat isn't quite a new hire position today, it's close.

Technically a new hire could be a 777 CA if the position were to go unbid. Not likely of course. But that's how the system works

[AOW]

They are probably talking about Sky Regional, who have recently hired DECs, and who fly ERJs with Air Canada (Express) written on the side.

[snag]

Yes. True, at mainline. The last equipment bid had open spots for EMJ captain. The thing is, a new hire will only get to pick from the positions made available during the groundschool, which would likely never include the captain spot.

The new hire could bid to EMJ captain on the next possible equipment bid, costing them their single narrow body course right. The airplane is being replaced, so either they'll never get trained, or hold the position very briefly, get force reduced to a standard junior spot, and now have limited options for a future captain upgrade with the course right already spent.

I think it's undid because people don't want that hassle. Unlike previously, where AC really had a shortage of captains, now I think they'll just let those spots go unfilled and die off as the airplane leaves the fleet.

[rudder]

I think it's undid because people don't want that hassle. Unlike previously, where AC really had a shortage of captains, now I think they'll just let those spots go unfilled and die off as the airplane leaves the fleet.

All 25 E190's are in the fleet until the end of 2019 (3 more years) and then the first C-series replacements will begin to arrive. 2020 will see a meaningful drawdown on the E190 fleet.

My guess is all of the vacancies in the left seat of the E190 will continue to be filled and trained until the actual E190 fleet attrition commences. The older PML pilots will bid the vacancies since a forfeit course right means little to them if their time at AC will be shorter than their younger counterparts (perhaps just 10-15 years). Their reduction off the E190 in 2020 will be a free bid. They will still have one unrestricted course right which they can use for another NC spot (B737/CS300/Rouge) when they have the seniority to hold it.

[Soar]

Thanks for the replies everyone - insightful. Yes AOW, I'm pretty sure now that's what it probably was...

They are probably talking about Sky Regional, who have recently hired DECs, and who fly ERJs with Air Canada (Express) written on the side.

[Duke p]

I believe there's a real push to enact Status Pay in 2017.......watch for it. It will solve the training nightmare that's just around the corner. Rouge must be included type for type, at least for pay purposes, if they want any serious expansion approved, but I'm not holding my breath.

My bet is that it will be bought from us cheaply in the end though, as has everything else. The Membership will likely agree to group Rouge 767 as "narrow-body".........we're the only Major Airline on the planet that's decided to "walk away" from A-scale compensation for what will be by next year, 25% of its widebody fleet. Its really sad to watch our slide while other far stronger groups like Delta are showing the world what pilot unity, and "having a set" really means.

ACPA is afraid of its own shadow, or colluding with the Mothercorp to fracture the Membership into as many tiny pieces as they can........one of these is without a doubt true.......take your pick. ACPA has mastered the ability to spin the yarn that continual sacrifice on the part of the Membership will pay off down-line....something about "bargaining chips"....WTF.

In the end though, you have to understand that the Membership signed a ten year deal with limited opportunity and "arbitrated settlements" for a "shmoke and a pancake" .....absolutely brilliant. As a democracy, some of us are just along for the ride. The next few years are going to be interesting.

Duke.

[Doug Moore]

When ACPA divided its house over the FP60 issue, I recall that was OK with you; but today “it’s really sad to watch our slide” because “as a democracy, some of us are just along for the ride”. The thing about hypocrisy Duke, is that you can’t have it both ways. If you're prepared to screw your fellow pilot, then be prepared to get screwed. If you’re interested, I can tell you where you can find sympathy ….

[Duke p]

When ACPA divided its house over the FP60 issue, I recall that was OK with you; but today “it’s really sad to watch our slide” because “as a democracy, some of us are just along for the ride”. The thing about hypocrisy Duke, is that you can’t have it both ways. If you're prepared to screw your fellow pilot, then be prepared to get screwed. If you’re interested, I can tell you where you can find sympathy ….

Ahhh...the "H-word"........here it comes.

Yes, ACPA really dropped the ball focusing on other issues years back when they could have focused on ensuring a self-serving group at the top of the food chain received a far longer "feed at the trough" than they signed on for while the other 2500 of us stood around wondering why we all waited so long. We all should have dropped everything far sooner and got it done....alas.

Doug Moore still cruising the forums...... still missing the point and context of a post......nothing better to do on the planet early in the afternoon on a beautiful day??? Bike ride maybe, round of golf, walk the dog, seniors coffee at McDonald's with friends, time with the family perhaps??? Years are getting a little short for your crew.

What's FP60 again? I'm sure we'd all love to have our memory refreshed. Don't forget to remind us all how that worked out.

Duke.

[Doug Moore]

I'm sure that you'd love to have your memory refreshed too, Duke, but I've been down that dark and dirty road and not interested in going back. Thanks for your own recap though - talk about mastering the "ability to spin the yarn". Enjoy your "ride" with ACPA for which you say you're along ... and maybe along the way you can show your peers what "having a set" really means; after all, they're "afraid" of their own shadow so it should be easy for a big boy like you.

By the way, mock my "cruising" this forum if you wish but save your recommendations for how I should spend my remaining days on this planet. Focus on your own life pal, you're much better at that.

[A V I A T O]

I think it's undid because people don't want that hassle. Unlike previously, where AC really had a shortage of captains, now I think they'll just let those spots go unfilled and die off as the airplane leaves the fleet.

All 25 E190's are in the fleet until the end of 2019 (3 more years) and then the first C-series replacements will begin to arrive. 2020 will see a meaningful drawdown on the E190 fleet.
.

So what next for the E190's; farm them out and their respective routes to SKV, like a repo'd fleet of rental chryslers?

[rudder]

So what next for the E190's; farm them out and their respective routes to SKV, like a repo'd fleet of rental chryslers?

AC has very specific fleet metrics in the ACPA collective agreement. There are targets, minimums, and limitations as it applies to mainline, Rouge, and Express. With the corporate announcements of the NB fleet renewal (B737/C-series) there is far less mystery than there has ever been on what the fleet will look like in the medium term.

Only open issue appears to be a request to consider Rouge fleet expansion that is not consistent with the current limitations of the ACPA collective agreement. Ultimately it will be up to ACPA (and the AC pilots) to consider that request. Nobody has mentioned a request to modify the Express fleet limitations so the E190's that are being retired will either be put up for sale by AC or sent to the desert for storage. SKV will probably continue to add aircraft but they will meet the scope limitations of the ACPA collective agreement.

[Dockjock]

edited

[lawndart]

The new hire could bid to EMJ captain on the next possible equipment bid, costing them their single narrow body course right. The airplane is being replaced, so either they'll never get trained, or hold the position very briefly, get force reduced to a standard junior spot, and now have limited options for a future captain upgrade with the course right already spent.

Incorrect. If you are force reduced from a position, you get the course right used to train to that position back, in addition to not using a course right to train to your reduced position. In this example the NB CR is used to train EMJ CA, then pilot is force reduced to whatever they can hold (with no course right used to train to the new position) and the NB CR is restored to the pilot.

[BingBong]

The new hire could bid to EMJ captain on the next possible equipment bid, costing them their single narrow body course right.

Isn't this only a half a course right (granted the new hire was an EMJ f/o

[Sea2Sky]

So much misinformation on this site. Air Canada is not hiring direct entry Captains, nor can you hold left seat in your first year. You have to be on property for one year before you can hold left seat. This was a proviso created after the hiring spree in 2005-2007, when guys were being awarded left seat while still in initial training.

[BingBong]

The last batch of EMB awarded left seats have yet to complete their first recurrent ride.....