First few years pay

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KAG
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First few years pay

#1 Post by KAG » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:04 am

So, lots of talk of Westjet pilots applying to AC. For conversation purposes what does the flat pay translate into net pay monthly?
Can you get OT?
How about mainline VS rouge (net) pay?

Thanks.
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fish4life
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Re: First few years pay

#2 Post by fish4life » Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:40 am

I think that at the moment most guys are seeing the quick upgrade which makes the first 4 years of flat pay kinda moot point. Some guys are leaving flat pay after 2 years to go left seat EMB and moving right into CPT formula pay.
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Re: First few years pay

#3 Post by schnitzel2k3 » Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:32 am

The question is how long are those quick upgrades going to be available.

Do the guys at AC forsee lots of narrow body left seat openings, especially when the EMBs are replaced for C Series?

Curious.

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Re: First few years pay

#4 Post by Dockjock » Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:00 pm

The C series is going to pay more than the EMJ so I doubt it goes as junior, even if the flying will be similar. And my read on the large cohort of ex-Jazz pilots who have been hired thus far is that many will be gunning for a left seat ASAP. So in all likelihood the narrowbody captain spots will not go unfilled the way they are now, for those two reasons. Another factor as to why the EMJ is going so junior right now is because pilots are seeing the end of the fleet. Still 5 years away but its coming and being last probably means having bad flying, bad schedule, bad everything and being stuck there until the last couple airplanes are sold. C series will be a growth fleet which is far preferable as conditions will generally improve as time goes on. So...not junior. Sorry

As for mainline vs. rouge net pay. I can't comment on dollars because I don't know them specifically, but suffice it to say that nobody is leaving rouge to go to mainline, and that option has been available for several years now. Dollars are close, schedule is the main difference and these damn MILLENNIALS (heh) value having a life over scratching for every last penny the way they did it in THE GOOD OLD DAYS. /sarcasm
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Re: First few years pay

#5 Post by altiplano » Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:09 pm

I didn't know there was *lots of talk*... maybe at Westjet?.

Anyway,

About $55/60/70/80 an hour... Year 1/2/3/4

Unless you bid captain then it's way more. First year guys are holding EMJ captain and even 320 captain is going to guys in their 4th year...

Rouge guarantees 77.5/month, Mainline guarantees 900/year for blockholders...

You can get OT, or ideally draft at a higher premium - It always comes eventually if you're looking.
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Re: First few years pay

#6 Post by KAG » Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:05 am

Sure lots of talk on AC, asian contracts, the sand box, ETC. Also unions, investing, home renos, cars, FA's, beer. Nothing else to do at 30somthing thousand feet.
Point is, it would be nice to have some factual information to pass along so someone can make an informed decision, or at least on point discussion.
Thanks for the replies.
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Re: First few years pay

#7 Post by ZBBYLW » Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:33 pm

AC has a lot of selection for a new hire.

The first 4 years are what they are unfortunately. With that being said if someone wants to bid to the bottom of the EMJ they can do it relatively soon in their careers and despite a poor schedule would e financially better off.

Rouge is great for those who are junior. Relatively productive pairings on the bus and for those interested "sexy" layover on the 767 (24-72 hours in vacation spots across Europe, Hawaii, Lima and now Bogota. I am more familiar with the bus operation. You generally work on average 12-14 days. I get most of my days off I want and generally get a great schedule (7-9 day turns) followed by some okay/crappier schedules which are still decent (say a 13 day month all day flying with a couple over nights). It's better for the family as I am home more often and we dont need day care.

For those that want OT it's available. For me personally it's hard to come in on my days off in the summer. But I'll do the occasional draft but that's generally it. Some FOs do quiet well if the end up going nuts some will work up to 16-20 days.

Things at AC are great. Quick upgrade if you want it. Wide body (mainline) jobs are available pretty quickly (whether as an RP or FO). I have friends at WS and we talk on occasion about it. Overall as a junior guy I'd say with the retirement bubble finally arriving (age 65) plus the expansion we are under I'd say it's a good place here. Not saying WS is a bad job just that I think more potential exists for a new hire at AC right now.
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Re: First few years pay

#8 Post by Skyhunter » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:07 am

last year half second year pay half 3rd year pay. 319 Rouge F/O. Made about 30k in overtime... about 90k gross for the year. I don't mind working hard without whining. avg 12-14 days before overtime and another 2-4 additional overtime on top. Had more time off than I ever did in the military even with the overtime.
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Re: First few years pay

#9 Post by rudder » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:17 am

Skyhunter wrote:last year half second year pay half 3rd year pay. 319 Rouge F/O. Made about 30k in overtime... about 90k gross for the year. I don't mind working hard without whining. avg 12-14 days before overtime and another 2-4 additional overtime on top. Had more time off than I ever did in the military even with the overtime.
Is it true that AC has asked ACPA for ability to implement reserve at ROUGE? Apparently not happy with cost of draft premium.
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Re: First few years pay

#10 Post by yycflyguy » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:52 am

rudder wrote:
Skyhunter wrote:last year half second year pay half 3rd year pay. 319 Rouge F/O. Made about 30k in overtime... about 90k gross for the year. I don't mind working hard without whining. avg 12-14 days before overtime and another 2-4 additional overtime on top. Had more time off than I ever did in the military even with the overtime.
Is it true that AC has asked ACPA for ability to implement reserve at ROUGE? Apparently not happy with cost of draft premium.
First time I have heard that one. I have been told the exact opposite. The savings of not hiring extra bodies (in the form of employee benefits) more than covers the cost of drafting and not running a reserve pool.
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Re: First few years pay

#11 Post by altiplano » Mon Sep 19, 2016 1:05 pm

They can run reserve at rouge in the existing LOU, but they aren't obligated.

Heck, ACPA isn't even making then run the reserve required at mainline and they are choosing to go thin.

No reserve is a big savings for them. What they want is limits on OT squashed so they can crew even tighter.
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Re: First few years pay

#12 Post by Texan1256 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:42 am

Is it true that overtime is paid at the flat hourly rate while under flat pay or is it 1.5 times higher after 85 hours? My buddy in his first year says he doesn't get time-and-a-half for overtime, but I'm skeptical because I've heard otherwise.
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Re: First few years pay

#13 Post by altiplano » Wed Sep 28, 2016 1:30 pm

At mainline:

Over 85 attracts a 50% premium.

At rouge:

All overtime flying attracts a 50% premium - no matter if you're blocked at 60 or 85.

It doesn't matter what year you are in.

Maybe he's doing straight OT at mainline under 85? What he should be doing is draft...

If indeed he is not getting paid per the contract and is being told no premiums on "flat" pay he should contact ACPA.
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Re: First few years pay

#14 Post by ZBBYLW » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:34 pm

Texan1256 wrote:Is it true that overtime is paid at the flat hourly rate while under flat pay or is it 1.5 times higher after 85 hours? My buddy in his first year says he doesn't get time-and-a-half for overtime, but I'm skeptical because I've heard otherwise.
Not true. Flat pay only refers to hourly rates (not formula pay). That beans you get a set hourly rate with no nav/overseas pay that is the same on any RP or FO position. If you get 1.5x you get 1.5x, if you get 2.5x you get 2.5x. It used to work otherwise.
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Re: First few years pay

#15 Post by Baviation » Fri Sep 30, 2016 1:25 pm

T
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Re: First few years pay

#16 Post by All DAY EVERY DAY » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:27 am

Anybody know what the take home numbers are for first year FO? What do you end up with after everything is said and done every two weeks?

Thanks
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Re: First few years pay

#17 Post by Dixon_rd » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:01 am

All DAY EVERY DAY wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:27 am
Anybody know what the take home numbers are for first year FO? What do you end up with after everything is said and done every two weeks?

Thanks
I’m also curious about this.

Thanks
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Re: First few years pay

#18 Post by sanjet » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:20 am

Texan1256 wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:42 am
Is it true that overtime is paid at the flat hourly rate while under flat pay or is it 1.5 times higher after 85 hours? My buddy in his first year says he doesn't get time-and-a-half for overtime, but I'm skeptical because I've heard otherwise.
You are guaranteed 75 hours pay per month as a new hire. Any hours flown above that, you will be paid the hourly rate until 85 hours. Anything above 85 hours is then paid at overtime rate (1.5X).
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Re: First few years pay

#19 Post by Jimmy_Hoffa » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:51 pm

sanjet wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:20 am
Texan1256 wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:42 am
Is it true that overtime is paid at the flat hourly rate while under flat pay or is it 1.5 times higher after 85 hours? My buddy in his first year says he doesn't get time-and-a-half for overtime, but I'm skeptical because I've heard otherwise.
You are guaranteed 75 hours pay per month as a new hire. Any hours flown above that, you will be paid the hourly rate until 85 hours. Anything above 85 hours is then paid at overtime rate (1.5X).
And this is why we end up with a contract that passes with such a narrow margin. Very few hired in the last few years actually know what is in the contract or what has changed or care to actually read it.

Mainline:
First 4 years, guaranteed 75 hours / month first 4 years. Blocks may be higher (DBM).
OT. Straight time up to DBM, then 1.5x if you list your self. 1.5X if they call you unsolicited.
Over 85hrs attracts a 50% premium including block growth. If you are on OT its 1.5x +0.5x = 2.0x

Rouge
77.5 hours guarented
OT. List and called withing 48hours = 1.5x, unsolicited = 2.5x
anything over 82.5 attracts an additional 0.5x (ie. 1.5x+0.5x or 2.5x+0.5x)

As of April 2018

Yr 1- $58.88
Yr 2- $64.38
Yr 3- $73.37
Yr 4- $82.16
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Re: First few years pay

#20 Post by Noo » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:03 pm

What's the take home per month for the first year? How much money ends up in your bank account in one month? Thanks.
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Re: First few years pay

#21 Post by Jimmy2 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:10 pm

$3395 per month by my calculation. Minus whatever union dues are.
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Re: First few years pay

#22 Post by dashtrash1 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:49 am

First paycheque after tax and deductions is $2100, while the second one has your per diems on it, and is usually around 2200 ($1400 without PDs).
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Re: First few years pay

#23 Post by dashtrash1 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:50 am

Edit, double post.
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Re: First few years pay

#24 Post by mbav8r » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:11 am

dashtrash1 wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:49 am
First paycheque after tax and deductions is $2100, while the second one has your per diems on it, and is usually around 2200 ($1400 without PDs).
Thanks for that, just want to make sure, is that with max contribution to DC pension plan?
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Re: First few years pay

#25 Post by sanjet » Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:27 am

Jimmy_Hoffa wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:51 pm

And this is why we end up with a contract that passes with such a narrow margin. Very few hired in the last few years actually know what is in the contract or what has changed or care to actually read it.

Mainline:
First 4 years, guaranteed 75 hours / month first 4 years. Blocks may be higher (DBM).
OT. Straight time up to DBM, then 1.5x if you list your self. 1.5X if they call you unsolicited.
Over 85hrs attracts a 50% premium including block growth. If you are on OT its 1.5x +0.5x = 2.0x

Rouge
77.5 hours guarented
OT. List and called withing 48hours = 1.5x, unsolicited = 2.5x
anything over 82.5 attracts an additional 0.5x (ie. 1.5x+0.5x or 2.5x+0.5x)

As of April 2018

Yr 1- $58.88
Yr 2- $64.38
Yr 3- $73.37
Yr 4- $82.16

Thanks for the correction Jimmy, didn’t know the new contract had that much of a change.
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