First few years pay

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dashtrash1
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Re: First few years pay

#26 Post by dashtrash1 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:11 am

[/quote]
Thanks for that, just want to make sure, is that with max contribution to DC pension plan?
[/quote]

That was my most recent pay with the TBP plan, which has a fixed contribution rate. I'm not involved in the ESOP.
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Panama Jack
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Re: First few years pay

#27 Post by Panama Jack » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:26 am

dashtrash1 wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:49 am
First paycheque after tax and deductions is $2100, while the second one has your per diems on it, and is usually around 2200 ($1400 without PDs).
:shock:
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yycflyguy
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Re: First few years pay

#28 Post by yycflyguy » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:15 am

Panama Jack wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:26 am
dashtrash1 wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:49 am
First paycheque after tax and deductions is $2100, while the second one has your per diems on it, and is usually around 2200 ($1400 without PDs).
:shock:
Tranquilo Panama. You get two pay checks per month. One on the first (which is technically an advance) and one on the 17th.
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Brize
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Re: First few years pay

#29 Post by Brize » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:16 pm

2017 shows $75k.
25% year 1, 75% year 2 on flat pay on narrow body.
Flew a bit of overtime every other month. Could have easily done another 10k.
Sorted out pension in fall 2017 contract agreement was a huge relief for the long term.

Awesome awesome job, simply put.
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DHC7DVR
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Re: First few years pay

#30 Post by DHC7DVR » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:06 pm

Is there much opportunity for Over Time? Do you bid for it? Or do they just call you from time to time and ask if your interested?

Getting by on what is effectively 54k for the first 12 months is going to be a serious challenge to say the least....

By the way, I appreciate that it may vary from type to type, what's the average salary at year 5?

Thanks!
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TheRealMcCoy
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Re: First few years pay

#31 Post by TheRealMcCoy » Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:14 pm

Anybody at AC working side jobs on their time off? Does AC allow it?
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Victory
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Re: First few years pay

#32 Post by Victory » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:54 am

I work as a psychiatrist for the flight attendants listening to all of life's problems. Unfortunately it is an unpaid position.
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Re: First few years pay

#33 Post by fish4life » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:42 am

:lol:
Victory wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:54 am
I work as a psychiatrist for the flight attendants listening to all of life's problems. Unfortunately it is an unpaid position.
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Re: First few years pay

#34 Post by Lightchop » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:58 am

TheRealMcCoy wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:14 pm
Anybody at AC working side jobs on their time off? Does AC allow it?
Really?

You can't deal with 54k for a year? Many Canadians get by on much less.

You're better off being available for overtime if you want it.
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altiplano
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Re: First few years pay

#35 Post by altiplano » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:13 am

Absolutely. I'm not a fan of max OT, you need your time off.

But being available one or two trips every few months on OT, or a sim seat fill... will likely pay you more than any side job and take less effort to see you through the lean years... At time and a half or double time, and pensionable, it adds up...
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Re: First few years pay

#36 Post by Lightchop » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:38 am

altiplano wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:13 am
Absolutely. I'm not a fan of max OT, you need your time off.

But being available one or two trips every few months on OT, or a sim seat fill... will likely pay you more than any side job and take less effort to see you through the lean years... At time and a half or double time, and pensionable, it adds up...
Yeah, sorry... to clarify I agree. I usually take two, maybe three days a month and they're usually easy single turns.

But yes, even at only a few days a month you'll make more than any side job and work less days to make a comparable dollar amount.
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TheRealMcCoy
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Re: First few years pay

#37 Post by TheRealMcCoy » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:01 pm

Lightchop wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:58 am
Really?

You can't deal with 54k for a year? Many Canadians get by on much less.

You're better off being available for overtime if you want it.
That's sweet, good to know I can get by on less! I had no clue about that!

Maybe I just enjoy doing other things as well?
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altiplano
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Re: First few years pay

#38 Post by altiplano » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:40 pm

Consumers... :roll:

lol...
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Re: First few years pay

#39 Post by Lightchop » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:09 pm

altiplano wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:40 pm
Consumers... :roll:

lol...
Exactly.

Adjust your spending habits for a year or two.
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Re: First few years pay

#40 Post by fruitloops » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:26 pm

It's a little older but just a sheet for the narrow body AC Airbus vs 737 WJ and includes some additional info i.e. pension - I can't remember where I pulled it from but I've got every aircraft comparison between AC and WJ - sorry I can't recall who to give credit to for the information.
paycomparison.JPG
paycomparison.JPG (309.23 KiB) Viewed 2325 times
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Re: First few years pay

#41 Post by Rooster69 » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:56 pm

DHC7DVR wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:06 pm
Is there much opportunity for Over Time? Do you bid for it? Or do they just call you from time to time and ask if your interested?

Getting by on what is effectively 54k for the first 12 months is going to be a serious challenge to say the least....

By the way, I appreciate that it may vary from type to type, what's the average salary at year 5?

Thanks!

Yes there is opportunity for Over Time. It does make a difference if you are mainline or Rouge. There has been a lot of moaning and groaning at mainline about about when and if the pilots on OT get the Draft premium.

Rouge is straightforward. You get called for Draft, you get paid double time and a half.
You put your name in for VO(voluntary overtime) you get paid time and a half.


Mainline has Draft and VO . Draft is time and a half.
VO is straight time.

Someone else an explain as to when you get the Draft premium at mainline. The guys that re-wrote/ negotiated that part of the contract are idiots.
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altiplano
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Re: First few years pay

#42 Post by altiplano » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:07 am

Rooster69 wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:56 pm
Mainline has Draft and VO .
Draft is time and a half.
VO is straight time.

Someone else an explain as to when you get the Draft premium at mainline. The guys that re-wrote/ negotiated that part of the contract are idiots.
I agree that those who renegotiated draft at Mainline made a mistake, but might as well get the details right...

VO is straight time to DBM,
VO is 50% premium above DBM
85 hour premium is 50%,
Draft is always 50% premium.

So depending on where you are in the blocking window DBM +1/-5, at depending what DBM is, 85 hours some months, you could be right into double time for any extra flying... You could be straight time for the first few hours too... I pick the months I'm willing to do an extra trip accordingly.

Draft premium they don't like to acknowledge anymore. But you can tell them you'll do a trip with draft premium only if you're under DBM, and if they need you you'll get it.
Or tell them you'll do draft with drop ONLY. That's really the best, but it's harder to get... last resort kinda thing.
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Re: First few years pay

#43 Post by Dry Guy » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:19 am

What does draft and drop get you?
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Re: First few years pay

#44 Post by altiplano » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:22 pm

Dry Guy wrote:
Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:19 am
What does draft and drop get you?
Keep whichever is the higher of credit for the new trip or dropped trip, plus get paid 50% premium on all flying that is not within the original pairing footprint.

For example.
Scheduled for a 2 day trip, tomorrow, YYZ-YVR-YYZ. 10 hours pay.
Crew sked offers draft/drop to take a 2 day trip today YYZ-YYC-YYZ. 9 hours pay.
I still get paid the 10 hours I was originally blocked, plus a 50% premium on the flying that was before my original pairing was to start.
If the original pairing was an afternoon check-in and the new pairing is an early flight back to YYZ. I would collect premium on the whole new trip. So 10 hours pay, plus 4.5 hours premium.

There are lots of ways it can work out though. I've dropped crappy 4 day trips to get an easy 2 day trip all at premium. Less days, more money, sign me up... just depends how desperate they are.
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Re: First few years pay

#45 Post by 98 Corolla » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:38 am

altiplano wrote:
Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:40 pm
Consumers... :roll:

lol...
Well I just got denied to rent an apartment in Toronto because I don't earn enough. So wages matter in more things than just being a "consumer".
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CAL
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Re: First few years pay

#46 Post by CAL » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:36 am

Its interesting how complicated it has become to work out how much you actually earn at an airline these days (thats how the airlines want it)
the title was first few years pay....to me that is how much is in my bank account when I get paid after flying my allotted schedule.
earning 50 anything a year to fly a narrow body airliner is absolute shit and its very difficult to live off of period...unless your other half has a real job.
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Re: First few years pay

#47 Post by altiplano » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:31 am

CAL wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:36 am
Its interesting how complicated it has become to work out how much you actually earn at an airline these days (thats how the airlines want it)
the title was first few years pay....to me that is how much is in my bank account when I get paid after flying my allotted schedule.
earning 50 anything a year to fly a narrow body airliner is absolute shit and its very difficult to live off of period...unless your other half has a real job.
I agree that it's shit pay... perhaps sadly though, it's a raise from pre:2012 where first 2 years flat pay really was flat pay at <40K no matter what... ie. no OT pay.

I'll help you work it out though...

2018 F/O pay rates:
1 - $58.88
2 - $64.38
3 - $73.73

Add 2% every April.

Multiply by 900 at mainline and multiply by 930 at rouge. That's your base pay guaranteed.

Add another 20 hours for training every year. (22.5 rouge)

At mainline expect another 30-50 hours if you hold a block all year - without any OT.

If you do OT, expect more at a premium, only you can decide how much more you want to work at 1.5-2.5x your rate. 100 hours a month? I think you're crazy, but some are doing it.

If you're in ESOP at max rate add 3.3% to your earnings (assuming no capital gain/loss).

Add in what the company pays for your pension. Someone can correct me perhaps, but I believe it's 10.5% of earnings in the new TBP.

Expect about $10K profit share in the first few years assuming the economy keeps chugging.

100% paid short/long term disability, medical, dental, some life insurance.

Here's an example...
Assumptions -
you showed up April this year for your first year
paid for the bare guarantee minimum at Mainline
low hour blocks, <75/month, or reserve guarantee
NO overtime
minimum sim/art training
participate at maximum in ESOP
AC turns a profit and we get profit share:

900 hour guarantee+training =$54,170
+3.33% ESOP match =$1804
+$10k profit share =$10,000

Then deductions...
pre-tax union dues (1.5%ish) not on ESOP,
pre-tax pension contribution (7.5%) not on ESOP or profit share,

I've got you at about $60950 taxable income after you union dues and pension paid - taxes after that.

Let's say you're in BC.
federal/provincial/cpp/ei = $13,860
Remainder = $47,090 after deductions

Not pay, but I get about $1200/month per diem, yrmv depending on where you fly, and you said you want to know what's in your bank account end of the month.

So, without turning a wheel of OT, assuming minimum blocks and only the guarantee, profit share, and max ESOP participation, average per diem, plus 18% paid into your TBP pension, and full benefits. I've got you at an average take home of $5125 per month, year one AC mainline F/O.

Again YRMV... there may be a few taxable benefits that I'm not factoring here, parking at some bases is a taxable benefit, the employer paid life insurance is too... but I think they're minimal in the scope of this example, marginal tax rate 28.2%. Maybe you participate in extra group life insurance that is available from both the company and ACPA... Far cheaper than the open market, so maybe knock a few more bucks off for these kind of things if you think it's up your alley.

If you want to go over other scenarios I'd be happy to help.
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CAL
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Re: First few years pay

#48 Post by CAL » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:34 pm

wow
Thanks Altiplano for putting that together
I hope you have a consultancy business on the side
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Dry Guy
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Re: First few years pay

#49 Post by Dry Guy » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:01 am

I take home about $4300 a month. Don't believe the hype.
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altiplano
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Re: First few years pay

#50 Post by altiplano » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:01 pm

Dry Guy wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:01 am
I take home about $4300 a month. Don't believe the hype.
No intention to be hype. My number was an average, and a bit of a rough number.... Including profit share. Including ESOP. Including SIM/ART pay. I think it's reasonably accurate.
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