Accruing seniority before you get on property?

Discuss topics relating to Air Canada.

Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore, I WAS Birddog

PROC_HDG
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:52 pm

Re: Accruing seniority before you get on property?

Post by PROC_HDG »

Flash8 wrote:For those that didnt have the option to defer to accrue seniority, what is life on reserve like?

Days off per month, reserve time periods, next day bidding etc
Widebody/RP Reserve is a lot easier as you have a pretty good idea of where the fleet is and it is rare to get a short call. Narrowbody reserve is an especially sick form of torture.

PROC_HDG
---------- ADS -----------
 
Monorail Conductor
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:40 pm

Re: Accruing seniority before you get on property?

Post by Monorail Conductor »

How bad could it be? Im definitely interested in hearing what makes reserve at AC torturous.

For comparison, I purposely bid Reserve at jazz despite being able to hold a block. Sometimes can score a few extra days at home, and plenty of wdo opportunity when pairings go into a day off as they quite often do given than were short on the reserve roster.
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3848
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: Accruing seniority before you get on property?

Post by rudder »

Monorail Conductor wrote:How bad could it be? Im definitely interested in hearing what makes reserve at AC torturous.
.
It is all articulated in the ACPA collective agreement. If that is too convoluted a read, just ask an AC pilot who has been on reserve and they can explain it. Widely held belief is that reserve duty at AC is udesireable from a lifestyle perspective. Half of the 12 scheduled days off are considered unprotected and floating. And if you are off salary, monthly pay guarantees are lower and the blockholder annual hours pay guarantee does not apply to reserve schedule holders. This is the main reason that Rouge positions are desirable for junior pilots (no reserve).

The good news is that the proposed changes to reserve duty rules and reserve rest in the CAR's will offer some relief to the existing AC reserve conditions.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Pixidust
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu May 24, 2018 10:13 pm

Re: Accruing seniority before you get on property?

Post by Pixidust »

Good luck with that....DEC in the airline ....one day maybe but there are lots of guys waiting to upgrade...... then there is the Command upgrade course that everyone forgets about..... lots of failures lately
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Accruing seniority before you get on property?

Post by altiplano »

Nice thread resurrection...

2 year course deferrals are long behind us, and no DECs yet...

As you say, I'm not sure I'd want DEC as a new hire. Might be better to settle in for a bit, finish your probation and then take an upgrade... rather than risk washing out in your command sims and finding yourself on the street.

AC doesn't make it easy on you, plus as a legacy company it's a bit of a treasure hunt to find all the policies and procedures you'll have to be familiar with in the upgrade... I'm not sure I'd want to deal with that while just figuring my way around in a new company and getting through an initial course.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
confusedalot
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 959
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: location, location, is what matters

Re: Accruing seniority before you get on property?

Post by confusedalot »

Never worked for the place, but I can't see it either. The ironic part of the whole thing is that dec jobs actually saved my butt in other operators after the now forgotten turmoils of the industry. Nobody would hire me for an entry level job. Got captain jobs, go figure.

However, since it has been done before with the crj thing, I suspect that it is doable. Yes, yes, gotta be a superman to do it and all of that, but it is within normal human abilities.

Won't happen at air canada though for a number of non operational reasons.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.

veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.

:?
land3
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2005 3:23 pm
Location: No longer in the crew bunk at 180E

Re: Accruing seniority before you get on property?

Post by land3 »

atphat wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:32 pm There has been DEC at AC in the past.
When was that ?
---------- ADS -----------
 
atphat
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 462
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:01 pm

Re: Accruing seniority before you get on property?

Post by atphat »

land3 wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 7:03 pm
atphat wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:32 pm There has been DEC at AC in the past.
When was that ?
RJ. Embrarer. No one wanted the position.
---------- ADS -----------
 
User avatar
confusedalot
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 959
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: location, location, is what matters

Re: Accruing seniority before you get on property?

Post by confusedalot »

land3 wrote: Fri May 25, 2018 7:03 pm
atphat wrote: Fri Aug 11, 2017 8:32 pm There has been DEC at AC in the past.
When was that ?
Somewhere in the mid to late 90's, please excuse my alzheimers. Had a few mid level F/O acquaintances at big red at that time, not all, but practically none of them, wanted the crj left seat for a number of reasons. Hence the dec requirement.

When push comes to shove, gotta fill those seats.
---------- ADS -----------
 
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.

veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.

:?
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Accruing seniority before you get on property?

Post by altiplano »

Nobody wanted it because RJ Captain paid less than a 320 FO or even DC9 FO with more than a couple years seniority... it paid way less than a 767, 340 or 747 RP...

It paid less because AC whipsawed Mainline with Jazz and the Mainline guys took the low rates to "capture the flying" even though it was scoped...

Just like the EMJ, they fell for tricks like "Position Group Pay" and word games like "no FO should make more than a Captain"...

Of course they lost the flying in the end, but dragged down other pay rates to prop it up while it was there... pay that is gone forever when the propped up fleet gets cut.

Here are the rates from 2003, sadly they are about the same today... RPs are less...
03HOURLY (2).PDF
(8.79 KiB) Downloaded 132 times
---------- ADS -----------
 
rudder
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3848
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:10 pm

Re: Accruing seniority before you get on property?

Post by rudder »

altiplano wrote: Sat May 26, 2018 12:39 pm
It paid less because AC whipsawed Mainline with Jazz and the Mainline guys took the low rates to "capture the flying" even though it was scoped...
Not exactly historically accurate.

The CRJ LOU was negotiated by ACPA in 1994 for first CRJ delivery in 1995. There were still AC pilots on layoff in 1994.

I recall the sales pitch being that the CRJ LOU would bring back the layoffs sooner. I guess a low paying CRJ left seat at AC was represented as a better outcome than extending the layoffs. There was also the “we’ll fix the pay rates later” explanation.

There were pilots laid off as second officer that returned as CRJ CA.
---------- ADS -----------
 
altiplano
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 5377
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Accruing seniority before you get on property?

Post by altiplano »

Thanks for clarifying Rudder...

I might be slightly off... but the gyst is right...

"capture the flying" "we are jets"... at any pay rate...
---------- ADS -----------
 
bobcaygeon
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2005 8:03 am

Re: Accruing seniority before you get on property?

Post by bobcaygeon »

Monorail Conductor wrote: Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:59 am How bad could it be? Im definitely interested in hearing what makes reserve at AC torturous.

For comparison, I purposely bid Reserve at jazz despite being able to hold a block. Sometimes can score a few extra days at home, and plenty of wdo opportunity when pairings go into a day off as they quite often do given than were short on the reserve roster.
The reserve rules at Jazz are WAY above AC mainline's rules particularly when it comes to GDO's. Think your off and make plans, Oh wait, that day was a day off but not a GDO so now your on reserve and surprise surprise you're off to work .They don't normally juggle the days off for shits and giggles.They already have something cooking for you
---------- ADS -----------
 
Post Reply

Return to “Air Canada”