How is new hire equipment chosen?

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Jack_02
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How is new hire equipment chosen?

#1 Post by Jack_02 » Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:11 pm

When you're first hired by AC mainline do you get to request your preferred equipment (A320, E190, 767 Rouge, etc) or is it randomly selected for you when you join? Or also for the future when the short-haul fleet is split in the middle with the 737 Max and CS300 will their be selection for new hires?

Thanks for the responses,

-Jack
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Ah_yeah
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#2 Post by Ah_yeah » Mon Oct 23, 2017 2:34 pm

Jack, when I was hired class seniority was determined picking numbers out of a hat. Then, when the day arrived with what seats/bases were available, we wrote down a wish-list and it was generally handed out in seniority... but not always. In my case, I was handed the only position I did not ask for despite 7 on my list and picking #8 out of a class of 15. Not sure if that helps, but it was my experience.
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bruced007
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#3 Post by bruced007 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:42 pm

What are the most likely new hire positions going forward...?
Does Rouge or RP Mainline have a Reserve Schedule?
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#4 Post by atphat » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:18 am

Mainline has reserve. Rouge does not. The biggest need seems to be narrowbody FO. (Mainline)
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Alcoholism
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#5 Post by Alcoholism » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:56 am

Judging from the slew of incidents/accidents, they put the weaker pilots on the 320. :twisted:
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#6 Post by altiplano » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:00 am

Seniority is out of a hat.

They will give the class a list of available positions/bases based on vacancies and the training/sim slots available at the time. Choice is by seniority.

For example, there may be 787RP position vacancies at YYZ/YVR/YUL, but no training/sim slots available around the time you join so it won't be offered to the class.

They may offer more spots than people if they have many training/sim slots available.

I understand recent classes have been offered FO EMJ/320/737.

Looking at the Position Assignment List, that is where the wide majority of our openings are, along with a handful of RP/LCC positions.

Once you get your initial position/base, you will be able to bid to a different position based on vacancies and what your seniority can hold in our 6x/year equipment bids.

The company has the option of freezing you on your initial type (up to 4 years I think) but they say to bid what you want because they may release you. If it's a type change for a base transfer because you didn't get your preferred base on joining, ie. assigned YYZ but live in YVR, they will release you.
If it's a type change for an upgrade, they will release you.
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#7 Post by bruced007 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:18 pm

I guess ...FO Rouge/EMJ/B737/RP 787,777 ...would be the mostly likely positions, rest of the fleet is still on the gradual phase out ..320/ 330/B767 Mainline... no RP's in rouge, or at least not yet

And people talk about the 4 course rights is that effective after your first type,
ie, new hire joins B767 Rouge , bids B737 F/O(1st), then B787 F/O(2nd), B737 Capt (3rd) and your last course right would be either B777 or B787 Capt (4th)
altiplano wrote:Seniority is out of a hat.

They will give the class a list of available positions/bases based on vacancies and the training/sim slots available at the time. Choice is by seniority.

For example, there may be 787RP position vacancies at YYZ/YVR/YUL, but no training/sim slots available around the time you join so it won't be offered to the class.

They may offer more spots than people if they have many training/sim slots available.

I understand recent classes have been offered FO EMJ/320/737.

Looking at the Position Assignment List, that is where the wide majority of our openings are, along with a handful of RP/LCC positions.

Once you get your initial position/base, you will be able to bid to a different position based on vacancies and what your seniority can hold in our 6x/year equipment bids.

The company has the option of freezing you on your initial type (up to 4 years I think) but they say to bid what you want because they may release you. If it's a type change for a base transfer because you didn't get your preferred base on joining, ie. assigned YYZ but live in YVR, they will release you.
If it's a type change for an upgrade, they will release you.
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#8 Post by JBI » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:21 pm

bruced007 wrote:I guess ...FO Rouge/EMJ/B737/RP 787,777 ...would be the mostly likely positions, rest of the fleet is still on the gradual phase out ..320/ 330/B767 Mainline... no RP's in rouge, or at least not yet

And people talk about the 4 course rights is that effective after your first type,
ie, new hire joins B767 Rouge , bids B737 F/O(1st), then B787 F/O(2nd), B737 Capt (3rd) and your last course right would be either B777 or B787 Capt (4th)
Not quite.

Lots of information in the previous thread viewtopic.php?f=31&t=116468&start=25

Positions in new hire classes are not directly linked to what aircraft are being phased in or out. In fact, lots of A320 FO positions have been awarded to new hires in the last 3 classes.

Next the course rights have specific types i.e. narrow body FO, Wide body FO, RP, NB Captain, WB Captain and then an unrestricted. I also believe that after a certain amount of seniority you get another unrestricted bid.
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#9 Post by altiplano » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:33 pm

320s will be at AC well into the future.
We have recent 321s added, and I wouldn't be surprised to see more. especially with the political climate right now.

You get another unrestricted at 15 & 25 years.
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#10 Post by '97 Tercel » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:38 pm

And remember, if you don't have jet time you won't get awarded the 737 even if you're #1 in the class.
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#11 Post by altiplano » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:32 pm

I heard that about the 737.

Won't be long though I would think, TC has to go through the red tape of approving the simulator.

In the meantime...
I know a new hire would be loath to do it - but if you can hold and get denied the 737 and instead get the EMJ - force ACPA to grieve it. Make them take you for circuits in the '37.

If ACPA won't do it, file a DFR... They need one...

There is nowhere in our contract that says you can't use your course right on the open position on offer because of simulator limitations.

I don't think you can grieve it if you get the 320, because it's technically a higher rated position... ie. higher pay...
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#12 Post by Ah_yeah » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:30 pm

Alcoholism wrote:Judging from the slew of incidents/accidents, they put the weaker pilots on the 320. :twisted:
Edit: By far, the most classless post I've read here.
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#13 Post by HansDietrich » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:43 pm

Ah_yeah wrote:
Alcoholism wrote:Judging from the slew of incidents/accidents, they put the weaker pilots on the 320. :twisted:
Edit: By far, the most classless post I've read here.
Are you shocked?
1. It's AVCANADA. We're worse than Rottweilers in cages, before being released into the fighting pit.

2. The guy's nickname is Alcoholism... what can you possibly expect from that?
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#14 Post by confusedalot » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:20 pm

I do not or ever have worked for AC. Having said that, I would not be too cut up about getting an Embraer slot, since the pay on any type will not change for 4 years. By that time you will be off of it anyways.

It's actually a nice plane, and more advanced than the 737's, even the max. Downside, I hear the schedules are not great.....
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#15 Post by Alcoholism » Sat Nov 04, 2017 9:22 pm

HansDietrich

2. The guy's nickname is Alcoholism... what can you possibly expect from that?
I dunno... probably about as much or better than from a disgruntled PML Jazz pilot there Hans.
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#16 Post by RVR6000 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:44 pm

altiplano wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:32 pm

In the meantime...
I know a new hire would be loath to do it - but if you can hold and get denied the 737 and instead get the EMJ - force ACPA to grieve it. Make them take you for circuits in the '37.

If ACPA won't do it, file a DFR... They need one...

Not sure if you want to start your career at a new company filing a DFR in the first week.
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#17 Post by confusedalot » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:15 pm

RVR6000 wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:44 pm
altiplano wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:32 pm

In the meantime...
I know a new hire would be loath to do it - but if you can hold and get denied the 737 and instead get the EMJ - force ACPA to grieve it. Make them take you for circuits in the '37.

If ACPA won't do it, file a DFR... They need one...

Not sure if you want to start your career at a new company filing a DFR in the first week.
Must agree. You may want to understand that you are going through a probation period and sending grievances to a union has zero effect for the time you are on probation.

The probation period is what, 6 months to 2 years at big red?
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#18 Post by altiplano » Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:30 pm

RVR6000 wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:44 pm
altiplano wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:32 pm

In the meantime...
I know a new hire would be loath to do it - but if you can hold and get denied the 737 and instead get the EMJ - force ACPA to grieve it. Make them take you for circuits in the '37.

If ACPA won't do it, file a DFR... They need one...
Not sure if you want to start your career at a new company filing a DFR in the first week.
Obviously it's not an ideal course to follow... as I said "loath to do it"...

BUT... where in our contract does it say a new hire can't bid an open position his seniority can hold?

You're spending your one course right to that group... that's lost opportunity if you're denied.

The big question is where is ACPA representing our new hires, dues paying, ACPA colleagues being denied... No individual should have to do it. ACPA should be out front on this.
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#19 Post by MRP » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:50 pm

altiplano wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:30 pm


BUT... where in our contract does it say a new hire can't bid an open position his seniority can hold?
Altiplano look at paragraph 20.16.01 (old contract on PEFB) or 20.17.01 new one on ACPA web. Language is the same.

New hires only get to submit a position preference during PIT (not the same as a bid), but can be assigned any open position by the company.

Since this is right out of the collective agreement, it is not something that can be grieved or DFR'd as I understand.
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#20 Post by confusedalot » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:47 pm

Just a humble question for a non AC never been......

I heard that at one time, initial seniority was based on performance.

I have also heard that there was a time where initial seniority was based on picking straws.

What is the current vogue? Just curious, old and retired, no dog in the race.
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Re: How is new hire equipment chosen?

#21 Post by dashtrash1 » Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:43 am

We drew names out of a hat to determine seniority.
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