Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

Discuss topics relating to Air Canada.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, Sulako, North Shore

Message
Author
User avatar
confusedalot
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 760
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: location, location, is what matters

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#101 Post by confusedalot » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:07 pm

Read through 2 and a half pages of this stuff (I promise I will read it all) and something occurred to me. The nature of the animosity and bitching has not changed in 40 years...............I got tired of hearing it all over again.

It is normal for the up and comers to want their slice of the pie, however sad to hear how those slices are distributed. Once again, after 40 years, seems like the system has just not changed.

Have more to say about the situation but not tonight.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.

veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.

:?

Eric Janson
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 672
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 10:44 am

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#102 Post by Eric Janson » Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:59 am

To the original poster:-

Some perspective.

I've failed interviews/not been invited to selections by most of the worlds major Airlines. There's plenty of other options out there - don't focus on a single company as being the place to work.

I have a friend whose goal was to get hired by Airline X. He got hired by Airline X and absolutely hated working there and left after about 2.5 years. Airline X is a very well known Global Airline.

I recall Air Canada was on the verge of bankruptcy in 2009 - I was working with 2 retired Air Canada Captains who were worried they were going to lose their pension. My point is that the airline business is cyclical in nature (boom to bust). Nobody knows how long the current boom will last or how deep the bust will be.

Looking back on how things have worked out I think some of these companies unwittingly did me a favour by not hiring me - especially when I read about how things are deteriorating at these places.

No regrets about how things have worked out. I have letters of reference from every company I've worked for.

As for hiring processes - each company has their own way of doing things. I've been hired over the phone and I've been hired after a 20 minute informal discussion. At my current job there was an informal chat with the deputy training manager followed by a short Sim session. They just wanted to see if I could fly and that I wasn't a complete idiot.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Always fly a stable approach - it's the only stability you'll find in this business

Rockie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7690
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:10 am

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#103 Post by Rockie » Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:40 am

There’s something I don’t understand. Flying is not a career one falls into by accident, it is typically something one has to pursue with single minded determination that usually begins with a love of flying and aviation in general. Yet somewhere along the line for many people that love disappears and it becomes an ordeal they want to endure the least amount of time possible for the most amount of pay.

That’s fine, but I’m one of those people who still loves flying and still loves my job. What I don’t understand is why those who have lost it don’t try something they like better? Is there nothing good in this gig they recognize anymore?
---------- ADS -----------
  

zipper
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 5:52 am

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#104 Post by zipper » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:07 am

Rockie wrote: What I don’t understand is why those who have lost it don’t try something they like better? Is there nothing good in this gig they recognize anymore?
Pulling the pin after you've invested 20 years and have a mortgage and wife is no easy thing.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Rockie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7690
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:10 am

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#105 Post by Rockie » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:58 am

Agreed. What you do have power over is attitude. While there are lots of irritants and flying at night certainly doesn’t get any easier as I get older, I don’t lose sight of why I got into this in the first place and it is all still valid. I’m reminded every time I break out on top to a new day.
---------- ADS -----------
  

goingnowherefast
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1062
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:24 am

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#106 Post by goingnowherefast » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:11 am

There are some days I can't wait to go flying, and there are some days I have to go to work.
---------- ADS -----------
  

zipper
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 5:52 am

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#107 Post by zipper » Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:53 am

goingnowherefast wrote:There are some days I can't wait to go flying, and there are some days I have to go to work.
This.
---------- ADS -----------
  

av8ts
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 656
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:31 am

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#108 Post by av8ts » Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:46 pm

Rockie wrote:
That’s fine, but I’m one of those people who still loves flying and still loves my job. What I don’t understand is why those who have lost it don’t try something they like better? Is there nothing good in this gig they recognize anymore?
Until I find a job that will pay me to do the things I love ( laying on a hot beach, exploring places in Europe I haven’t been or drinking true craft beer) then I’ll continue to “work” flying as it enables me to easier do the things I love
---------- ADS -----------
  

altiplano
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2957
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#109 Post by altiplano » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:37 pm

Rockie wrote:There’s something I don’t understand. Flying is not a career one falls into by accident, it is typically something one has to pursue with single minded determination that usually begins with a love of flying and aviation in general. Yet somewhere along the line for many people that love disappears and it becomes an ordeal they want to endure the least amount of time possible for the most amount of pay.

That’s fine, but I’m one of those people who still loves flying and still loves my job. What I don’t understand is why those who have lost it don’t try something they like better? Is there nothing good in this gig they recognize anymore?
I am sure you are bidding for max days at work, picking up all the legal OT you can, and then firing up your Cessna to peel around the countryside on your CARs days off... I mean you "love" it, right?

"Love of flying"... it's a job, and while I may like it as a job it doesn't mean I want to be there more than I have to. I love my family, my friends, I enjoy pursuing other interests... flying planes enables that. Just because I don't love it, or want to be there more than I have to doesn't mean I should quit or go get a new job.
the least amount of time possible for the most amount of pay.
Well said. That was the idea for me from day 1.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
confusedalot
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 760
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: location, location, is what matters

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#110 Post by confusedalot » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:09 pm

GATRGKA, the OP;

Once again, I know what you are saying, since I have lived the experience. The ugly events of 1992 in the feeder/mother corp. showdown and to a much lesser point, having done skyregional after a bankruptcy.

Things should be different, but some old clichés come to mind. I don't particularly like them, but I find that they do contain some real world wisdom.

-Life is not fair, get used to it (I think that was Bill Gates talking to university grads)
-Anyone who says that luck was not an element in their success is a liar
-Timing is everything
-You don't get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate

Not much help buy hey, it may assist in the journey of life.

As far as the feeder and mother corp. relationship is concerned, as much as I do not find it all that palatable on a human side, my rationale tells me it is a business arrangement, and sadly, employees are not, or ever have, been a priority.

As far as big red is concerned, they have tons of good people, but they also have their share of jerks. Best to let it go I think.

I only hope the PML setup will at least give some people a shot at the eventual big dollars. Just don't forget, an airplane is just an airplane. A runway is just a runway. A company is just a company.
---------- ADS -----------
  
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.

veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.

:?

Rockie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7690
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:10 am

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#111 Post by Rockie » Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:35 pm

altiplano wrote:
Rockie wrote:There’s something I don’t understand. Flying is not a career one falls into by accident, it is typically something one has to pursue with single minded determination that usually begins with a love of flying and aviation in general. Yet somewhere along the line for many people that love disappears and it becomes an ordeal they want to endure the least amount of time possible for the most amount of pay.

That’s fine, but I’m one of those people who still loves flying and still loves my job. What I don’t understand is why those who have lost it don’t try something they like better? Is there nothing good in this gig they recognize anymore?
I am sure you are bidding for max days at work, picking up all the legal OT you can, and then firing up your Cessna to peel around the countryside on your CARs days off... I mean you "love" it, right?

"Love of flying"... it's a job, and while I may like it as a job it doesn't mean I want to be there more than I have to. I love my family, my friends, I enjoy pursuing other interests... flying planes enables that. Just because I don't love it, or want to be there more than I have to doesn't mean I should quit or go get a new job.
the least amount of time possible for the most amount of pay.
Well said. That was the idea for me from day 1.
Yeah, I love it, especially when I consider doing something else for a living. That doesn’t mean however there aren’t some days I want to stay the hell away from airplanes. My point -in case you missed it - was that somewhere along the line a lot of people lose the passion and forget why they got into it in the first place. A small amount of others loathe it and count the minutes before they can retire.

I’m willing to bet that most people however would admit this is a pretty damn good gig all things considered if, you know, they really thought about it.
---------- ADS -----------
  

altiplano
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2957
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#112 Post by altiplano » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:32 pm

Yeah, it's a good JOB.

I don't have a countdown on my phone running or anything like that, for a job it's fine... but if I hit on 6/49 tomorrow - seeya...

Are you saying it would be different for you if you hit a $10million jackpot? You would hang in there to 65? Then push for 67? I mean, I know you're a fan and all...
---------- ADS -----------
  

Rockie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7690
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:10 am

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#113 Post by Rockie » Wed Nov 01, 2017 8:40 pm

Excellent question Altiplano. Would I hang in if I won a lottery? I don’t know. I love my job and feel no desire to leave it even if I were rich. And no, I do not owe my position to anybody junior to me.

On the other hand I would love to own a small charter company putting new pilots in the left seat of a Navajo or something like that to build command time while under proper supervision and mentorship without them or their parents worried about violating safe operating practices and getting killed.
---------- ADS -----------
  

altiplano
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2957
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#114 Post by altiplano » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:07 pm

You know the way to make a fortune in this business... start with a bigger one...

Anyway, I guess you identify with what you do, if that works for you then that's great.

This job works for me and that's great for me too.
But, while it largely consumes me, it isn't who I am - as I said: licking stamps, a week a month, a million a year, sure.
I could pursue what I really like, maybe even buy a plane and go places I want, do what I want, with the people I want to be with...
I'd take that any day...
---------- ADS -----------
  

Rockie
Top Poster
Top Poster
Posts: 7690
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 7:10 am

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#115 Post by Rockie » Wed Nov 01, 2017 9:32 pm

It isn’t who I am either. When faced with a choice not long ago I chose to leave, but it turned out to not be necessary. I don’t pretend to know everything that drives your life altiplano, don’t presume you know everything that drives mine.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Level Change
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:43 am

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#116 Post by Level Change » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:28 pm

After 30 years I love flying and love my job. However more often than not, I hate going to work these days.

The BS one has to go through just to get to the friggin airplane is ridiculous. The mall cops are so busy checking for waterbottles and chap sticks, yet totally miss the fact that guys on the ramp who do not get the same screening all come up the jetways to go to Tim’s.

I once had a mall cop at LHR take my nose hair trimmer telling me I can not be allowed to have anything that would allow me to gain control of the AC. The fact that I was the Captain of said AC escaped him.

When the park brake is released and I am pushing back from the insane asylum called an Airport Terminal, life is good. But I can’t wait to retire.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Alcoholism
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 119
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:51 pm

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#117 Post by Alcoholism » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:43 pm

Level Change wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:28 pm
After 30 years I love flying and love my job. However more often than not, I hate going to work these days.

The BS one has to go through just to get to the friggin airplane is ridiculous. The mall cops are so busy checking for waterbottles and chap sticks, yet totally miss the fact that guys on the ramp who do not get the same screening all come up the jetways to go to Tim’s.

I once had a mall cop at LHR take my nose hair trimmer telling me I can not be allowed to have anything that would allow me to gain control of the AC. The fact that I was the Captain of said AC escaped him.

When the park brake is released and I am pushing back from the insane asylum called an Airport Terminal, life is good. But I can’t wait to retire.
This is pertinent to the thread. Thank you for your contribution. Also, thank me for the same..........
---------- ADS -----------
  

Mostly Harmless
Rank 5
Rank 5
Posts: 310
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:10 am
Location: Betelgeuse

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#118 Post by Mostly Harmless » Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:18 pm

Rockie wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:40 am
There’s something I don’t understand. Flying is not a career one falls into by accident, it is typically something one has to pursue with single minded determination that usually begins with a love of flying and aviation in general. Yet somewhere along the line for many people that love disappears and it becomes an ordeal they want to endure the least amount of time possible for the most amount of pay.

That’s fine, but I’m one of those people who still loves flying and still loves my job. What I don’t understand is why those who have lost it don’t try something they like better? Is there nothing good in this gig they recognize anymore?
I agree with you.
zipper wrote:
Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:07 am
Pulling the pin after you've invested 20 years and have a mortgage and wife is no easy thing.
Is it any easier than doing a job you hate every minute that you are there? I've worked those kinds of jobs and I could never imagine doing that ever again. At some point you have to look at the value of your time and ask yourself if working for the weekend is enough.

Okay.... the mall cops are an irritant. So are the customs people. No job is ever going to be perfect.
---------- ADS -----------
  

av8ts
Rank 7
Rank 7
Posts: 656
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:31 am

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#119 Post by av8ts » Sat Nov 18, 2017 7:35 am

There is a big space between loving your job and hating your job. I think most of us fit in there somewhere
---------- ADS -----------
  

Outlaw58
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:49 pm

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#120 Post by Outlaw58 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:32 pm

A very wise colleague of mine once said: "If you don't have fun flying, you're doing it wrong"

JP
---------- ADS -----------
  

altiplano
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2957
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#121 Post by altiplano » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:26 pm

LOL...

Rather be enjoying life than working doesn't equal hate flying...

Some of you have to get off the black and white.

There certainly is a lot of bullshit at our work, I don't think anyone can deny that - but for the cashola and pension I'll count down the 20 or so I have to go... I'll watch the world market and piss off if it suits me better and faster... no doubt on that.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
confusedalot
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 760
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: location, location, is what matters

Re: Express Pilots VS Mainline Pilots

#122 Post by confusedalot » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:40 pm

There is a reason why I am confusedalot. The original poster had a very good point, now the thread has drifted waaay off course.

I also have had the dubious experience of doing the same job, at the same standards, for naught.

Same all installed kitchen but for half price, as long as the profits go to the full priced help.......

Way of the world, you have the winners, you have the losers. Is it any wonder that there may be, from time to time, some animosity that rears it's head?
---------- ADS -----------
  
Attempting to understand the world. I have not succeeded.

veni, vidi,...... vici non fecit.

:?

Post Reply

Return to “Air Canada”