Possible CSeries routes?

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aV1aTOr
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Re: Possible CSeries routes?

#51 Post by aV1aTOr » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:57 am

TheStig wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:30 am
There is something to be said for the value of older 'cheap' aircraft, just look at the number of MD-82/B717's flying with Delta and American. The side benefit to having some older aircraft in the fleet is flexibility, insofar as when there is a downturn in the economy they can be parked. The 767-200's left the fleet in 2008 for that reason. Having too many large financial commitments seems to be a big concern for the BOD as well as investors.

Today Air Canada has commitments for 61 MAX's and 45 C Series, it currently has 135-140 narrow body jets in the fleet by the end of 2018, and 10 of its A321's are relatively new. As much as I'd like to see AC continue to grow, there was a recession in the late 70's, 80's, 90's and 10 years ago...when the next one hits the 190's, 767-300's (which are essentially flying as big A321's) and/or A320's can inexpensively leave the fleet as the ability to profitably fly them disappears with the TSX.

Fleet flexibility is key, airlines make major economic projections months and years ahead and the picture gets more focused week to week. In early 2009 I remember someone in marketing telling me that advanced bookings for the upcoming summer had fallen off a cliff, while the airplanes were currently flying at respectable load factors they had no idea what was going to happen over the next few months! When you're talking about billions in cash flow that's a pretty scary position to be in. Since then when you look at the changes to scope language, crew manning bids every two months, aircraft orders/options and leases structured you can see that the focus has been on planning for the long term but also not getting caught with your pants down.
Agree on all points. And I believe these reasons underscore the CS300's importance in an economic downturn. Once E190s and older Airbus' are returned/parked, the seat gap stretches even further, from 76 to 169. This implies all current routes flown by E190s and 319/320s are now reduced to an RJ705/E175, or upguaged to a 78M.
Some have stated that AC flying around 3 narrowbody types (once the E190s leave) makes no sense, I see it as a strength for AC to deploy the right aircraft for the right missions. 321s for trunk domestic/transborder routes, 78Ms as the backbone of domestic/TB feed from secondary cities to hubs, CS300s for longer/thinner routes that justify mainline product (and there are many) but don't support 169+ seats.
As for training costs with multiple fleet types, AC has this locked down with the course right system.
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Re: Possible CSeries routes?

#52 Post by Gino Under » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:02 pm

FWIW, Delta are on record as saying they can’t get rid of their MD88 ‘MadDogs” and 717s fast enough. The MAX looks good compared to previous versions of the 37 but I’m not so sure in today’s reality it’s the leaps and bounds better than what’s available by comparison. Perhaps pricing and other fleet purchase considerations (777 and 787) must have played their part in deciding to go with the MAX.
In any event, AC were in talks with Bombardier well before the law suit conversation was even introduced.

Gino
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Re: Possible CSeries routes?

#53 Post by teacher » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:49 pm

The big hold up with AC on the CSeries were the 20 E190s that AC wanted gone. BBD said "NO WAY" to taking them as they are worth NOTHING and of little demand either leased or in the used market. Easy proof of that is the fact that the 20 that Boeing eventually took are still sitting in the desert.

Edited:

I found online that some have been parted out, leased to a few other carriers and some still in storage.
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Re: Possible CSeries routes?

#54 Post by Gino Under » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:42 pm

Dominique Anglade, Quebec's Minister for Economy, Science and Innovation defended the agreement between Bombardier and Airbus in this week's edition of Aviation Week. Many taxpayers (who, let's face it, don't understand economics) will simply poo poo her response as 'rhetoric'. Each of us gets to decide for ourselves as to the merits of her answers.

How is it in the interest of the Quebec taxpayers to hand over a controlling interest in the C Series to Airbus for no money?
Creating and keeping those jobs will certainly have a huge impact for us. The alternative is NO C SERIES. So what is the cost of no C Series for the government of Quebec? It's significant, because it has a ripple effect on the 40,000 people that are working in that field here. Not doing the investment would have been a lot costlier. That's how we approached it.
When we entered the program, we said that we needed a third partner, and we knew our 50% [stake] would probably go down to 33%. If you look at all the alternatives that were on the table, Airbus was the one that would keep the jobs here in Quebec and create momentum in terms of the [regional aerospace] ecosystem.
Airbus brings to the table the ability to sell more C Series. That's exactly what we want to accomplish. If we keep 40,000 jobs here in Quebec, if we create more momentum for small and medium-sized (SME) companies, that 's where the interest of the tax payers lies. We've been talking for a long time about having other major players in Montreal. We're going to see SME companies here in Montreal get the opportunity to deal with Airbus as suppliers. It's a fifth location for Airbus.

How close was the C Series program to being sold to the Chinese?
The one option we considered - the only one that was viable for us - was the one that was on the table [with Airbus].
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Re: Possible CSeries routes?

#55 Post by Gino Under » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:09 pm

For those who may have missed it in Flight International ..

Quote: Though Air Canada has described its incoming Bombardier CS300s as replacements for Embraer 190s, a top Air Canada executive has suggested the fleet plan could evolve.

Air Canada president of passenger airlines Benjamin Smith says the new Bombardier aircraft could prove as transformative as Boeing 787s, allowing Air Canada to make broader network changes.

During an interview with FlightGlobal at Toronto Pearson International airport on 9 February, Smith makes clear that Air Canada's plan calls for the CS300 to replace the E190.

"But that's assuming our network is static," he adds.

"This airplane is so good [that] we think it's going to want to go on every route in North America," Smith says of the CS300.

"The economics – it's got CASM rates that are equivalent to much larger airplanes. So it may enable us, or give us the opportunity, to rethink our bank structures, how our network is designed," he adds.

Air Canada has orders for 45 CS300s, with deliveries scheduled for between 2019 and 2022, according to Flight Fleets Analyzer. The 25 E190s scheduled for replacement are only about 10 years old, Fleets Analyzer shows.

"It's kind of like the 787," Smith says of the CSeries.

Air Canada initially ordered 787s as replacements for ageing Boeing 767s and Airbus A330s.

But the 787s proved so efficient on long-haul routes that Air Canada instead used them to launch a major international expansion, Smith says.

Air Canada ended up keeping the A330s in its mainline fleet, and transitioned the 767s to its newly-created low-cost subsidiary Rouge, Smith notes.

Thanks to the 787, Air Canada "rejiggered our entire network," Smith says. "If we can hit a similar home run with the CSeries, that would be amazing."

CSeries would be "perfect" for a route such as Vancouver to Boston, which "stretches the legs of the Airbus narrowbody", Smith says.

Or, Air Canada could potentially deploy CS300s from extreme-eastern Canadian cities to destinations in Europe, or from Vancouver to Hawaii, Smith says.

Smith says Air Canada remains confident Bombardier will meet its delivery schedule, downplaying the possibility that recent delivery delays could stretch into the coming years.

"We don't have a concern about the delivery schedule on the CSeries," Smith says. "We have a long history with Bombardier. We know their leadership extremely well."
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Re: Possible CSeries routes?

#56 Post by Cessna 180 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:25 pm

"We don't have a concern about the delivery schedule on the CSeries," Smith says. "We have a long history with Bombardier. We know their leadership extremely well."
Bombardier's history is nothing but delays! hahahaha.
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Re: Possible CSeries routes?

#57 Post by Gino Under » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:08 pm

Perhaps their customers understand a bit more about the delivery delays than your “ha ha ha” comment suggests you do.
Bombardier could deliver every C series ordered, on time, except for the simple fact customers tend not to accept aircraft without engines, thanks to Pratt and Whitney. Something beyond Bombardier’s control I’d imagine.
But, never mind. Another clean sheet design, the B787, wasn’t exactly an example of on time delivery.
Then there’s the USAF B767 tanker...

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Re: Possible CSeries routes?

#58 Post by sanjet » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:53 pm

Didn’t both the A380 and 787 both have delays close to 2 years. And didn’t the A320NEO lose it’s ETOPS certificate?
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Re: Possible CSeries routes?

#59 Post by Gino Under » Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:48 pm

So, Airbus are planning to re-brand the C series. Suggesting the A210 and A230 might be appropriate. No final decision yet. Maybe an announcement by Farnborough?
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