Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

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flymore
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Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#1 Post by flymore » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:57 pm

Seems like the most recent groundschool are getting a lot of Mainline narrow body spots, specially the EMJ and A320. For those with experience on those, what are your thoughts? Which one would you pick as a new hire?

Lifestyle
Routes
Schedule
Go to Rouge with A320 (319)
Upgrade
Enjoyment of each plane type
Anything else worth mentioning?
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#2 Post by Fanblade » Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:27 am

If I were a new hire I would choose Rouge.

No reserve. Socialized bidding is very beneficial when junior. Unlimited overtime to make up for the crappy pay check in the first 4 Year’s. If you like turns look at the 319. If you want overseas look at the 76.

The problem is most people are thinking the same way and often Rouge is not available to new hires. An option could be to take the 320 mainline then bid Rouge when available.

I doubt there will be many EMJ spots in the coming months as AC just decided to park 6 EMJs early in favour of keeping some 320s longer.
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#3 Post by aV1aTOr » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:05 pm

Fanblade wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:27 am
If I were a new hire I would choose Rouge.

No reserve. Socialized bidding is very beneficial when junior. Unlimited overtime to make up for the crappy pay check in the first 4 Year’s. If you like turns look at the 319. If you want overseas look at the 76.

The problem is most people are thinking the same way and often Rouge is not available to new hires. An option could be to take the 320 mainline then bid Rouge when available.

I doubt there will be many EMJ spots in the coming months as AC just decided to park 6 EMJs early in favour of keeping some 320s longer.
+1
Rouge is a great way to escape some of the pains of the early years of juniority. As it is usually not offered in new hire courses, bidding the 320 allows you to slide over when you can hold the position without using a course right. As another bonus, all 4 bases fly the 320, so bidding this aircraft allows you the option of moving between all bases (when you can hold a spot) without using a course right to do so. The 320s will be around for a long time yet. Which bases hold on to them will remain to be seen.
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#4 Post by HansDietrich » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:08 pm

If I had my pick, I'd go with the A320. That type rating is worth a lot if you want to go overseas and make some real money.
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#5 Post by atphat » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:23 pm

HansDietrich wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:08 pm
If I had my pick, I'd go with the A320. That type rating is worth a lot if you want to go overseas and make some real money.
I think you'll need some PIC for that plan to work
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#6 Post by HansDietrich » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:45 pm

atphat wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:23 pm
HansDietrich wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:08 pm
If I had my pick, I'd go with the A320. That type rating is worth a lot if you want to go overseas and make some real money.
I think you'll need some PIC for that plan to work
True enough, but not always. If you want to go to Emirates, time on an A320 will get an FO salary that rivals Air Canada's captain pay.
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#7 Post by altiplano » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:03 pm

Is it the pay? or the taxation regime?
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#8 Post by atphat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:38 am

HansDietrich wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:45 pm
atphat wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:23 pm
HansDietrich wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:08 pm
If I had my pick, I'd go with the A320. That type rating is worth a lot if you want to go overseas and make some real money.
I think you'll need some PIC for that plan to work
True enough, but not always. If you want to go to Emirates, time on an A320 will get an FO salary that rivals Air Canada's captain pay.
Have you spoken to any Emirates pilots lately? Ask them how great their job is.
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#9 Post by HansDietrich » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:57 am

atphat wrote:Have you spoken to any Emirates pilots lately? Ask them how great their job is.
I have. I actually have a number of friends that work at EK and EY. It's not perfect, but they have never complained about money. They work a lot, are gone from home a lot, but the money is great. Let's give credit where credit needs to be given. Don't believe all those "sob stories" about Emirates pilots being fed up. Some are, indeed, but if you see the standard of living of those who live there you'll change your mind. Those type of companies may not be the right fit for everyone, but to some, they are great.
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#10 Post by altiplano » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:13 am

Back on track - the guy's not asking about going to work at Emirates...

Anyway, I'd take none of the above - go on the 737.

Growing fleet, brand new aircraft, there are going to be some good routes, new guys coming on it already have a bunch below with more to come, ~300 more to be hired by spring...

If not that I'd take the 320... EMJ is shrinking.
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#11 Post by flymore » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:31 pm

All great advice guys. And thanks for getting the discussion back on track. I doubt anyone is coming to Air Canada to go to Emirates.

737 is restricted to candidates with previous jet time unfortunately. Also the YYZ base pilots will not be ETOPS qualified for now. The YUL base will be ETOPS qualified so those guys will do the YYZ overseas flying.

EMJ seems like the most unappealing option but may have the benefit of a free course right and a forced reduction bid, allowing you to move anywhere. And a quick upgrade but not for long.

A320 seems like the better option of the 2 schedule wise and has the potential for moving to Rouge.
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#12 Post by atphat » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:56 pm

I don’t think there are any benefits schedule wise to going on the 320 Mainline. Unless you want to be on reserve longer. Save the Rouge option.
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#13 Post by Shady McSly » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:05 pm

..
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#14 Post by groundpilot » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:51 pm

HansDietrich wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:57 am
atphat wrote:Have you spoken to any Emirates pilots lately? Ask them how great their job is.
I have. I actually have a number of friends that work at EK and EY. It's not perfect, but they have never complained about money. They work a lot, are gone from home a lot, but the money is great. Let's give credit where credit needs to be given. Don't believe all those "sob stories" about Emirates pilots being fed up. Some are, indeed, but if you see the standard of living of those who live there you'll change your mind. Those type of companies may not be the right fit for everyone, but to some, they are great.
Money is only a small part of the equation...come on Hans...

I'll happily take less money to:
- work less
- be home
- have a great home life surrounded by family & friends with solid roots

Remember, one divorce and you will quickly have LESS money and worked more, for NOTHING
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#15 Post by HansDietrich » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:56 pm

groundpilot wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:51 pm
HansDietrich wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:57 am
atphat wrote:Have you spoken to any Emirates pilots lately? Ask them how great their job is.
I have. I actually have a number of friends that work at EK and EY. It's not perfect, but they have never complained about money. They work a lot, are gone from home a lot, but the money is great. Let's give credit where credit needs to be given. Don't believe all those "sob stories" about Emirates pilots being fed up. Some are, indeed, but if you see the standard of living of those who live there you'll change your mind. Those type of companies may not be the right fit for everyone, but to some, they are great.
Money is only a small part of the equation...come on Hans...

I'll happily take less money to:
- work less
- be home
- have a great home life surrounded by family & friends with solid roots

Remember, one divorce and you will quickly have LESS money and worked more, for NOTHING
I agree with you 100%, but let's look at reality.
1. Quote " have a great home life"... What great "home" life mate, when a house in Toronto is 1.9 mil and you make 40K... 80K if you're a captain on a mighty Dash?

I think your dream was a reality about 20 years ago. Canadian pilots (flying for the big Red) had it good. They had their cake and ate it too. Us, regional "schmucks" will never be able to afford car insurance in YYZ, let alone a house...
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#16 Post by altiplano » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:22 pm

$1.9 million?

What kind of houses are you looking at Conrad Black? Lol.

I agree with the rest of your sentiment though... we sure let it slip.

A 747 FO at Air Canada 25 years ago made more than 767 Captain today. I'm talking real dollars, not inflation adjusted or anything... further they had a 10x better contact, more time off, indexed pension,

It's a tragedy...
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#17 Post by bruced007 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:02 am

Talking from the sand box , life is having the right amount of money with the right amount of time to enjoy it with the right amount of people. I would give anything to come back and join AC at the bottom of the list...Work rules in the middle east are max'd out..just my 2 cents


HansDietrich wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:56 pm
groundpilot wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:51 pm
HansDietrich wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:57 am


I have. I actually have a number of friends that work at EK and EY. It's not perfect, but they have never complained about money. They work a lot, are gone from home a lot, but the money is great. Let's give credit where credit needs to be given. Don't believe all those "sob stories" about Emirates pilots being fed up. Some are, indeed, but if you see the standard of living of those who live there you'll change your mind. Those type of companies may not be the right fit for everyone, but to some, they are great.
Money is only a small part of the equation...come on Hans...

I'll happily take less money to:
- work less
- be home
- have a great home life surrounded by family & friends with solid roots

Remember, one divorce and you will quickly have LESS money and worked more, for NOTHING
I agree with you 100%, but let's look at reality.
1. Quote " have a great home life"... What great "home" life mate, when a house in Toronto is 1.9 mil and you make 40K... 80K if you're a captain on a mighty Dash?

I think your dream was a reality about 20 years ago. Canadian pilots (flying for the big Red) had it good. They had their cake and ate it too. Us, regional "schmucks" will never be able to afford car insurance in YYZ, let alone a house...
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#18 Post by groundpilot » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:29 am

“Talking from the sand box , life is having the right amount of money with the right amount of time to enjoy it with the right amount of people. I would give anything to come back and join AC at the bottom of the list...Work rules in the middle east are max'd out..just my 2 cents”

Thanks for the honest and humble feedback
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#19 Post by peeelot » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:02 am

I have been on blithe types in the right seat. Now in the left seat of EMJ. I think the EMJ sked is great flying max hours in only 15 days not 16 like you would on the bus. The EMJ is a great machine fun to fly but you do raise and lower the gear more than other fleets but you also have less sitting in hotel time. On the EMJ you will be able to control your sked faster which is nice. I was 30% on the Airbus and had no control over sked and doing 3-4 redeye which was hard on the body. Hope that helps
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#20 Post by Icebreaker » Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:47 pm

If one were offered A320 mainline FO on the initial course how long would it take to slide over as A319 rouge FO?
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#21 Post by confusedalot » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:54 pm

Icebreaker wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:47 pm
If one were offered A320 mainline FO on the initial course how long would it take to slide over as A319 rouge FO?
None of my business, but.....would it not be more advantageous to be mainline instead of rouge FO? Simple and honest question just out of curiosity.
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#22 Post by atphat » Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm

confusedalot wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:54 pm
Icebreaker wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:47 pm
If one were offered A320 mainline FO on the initial course how long would it take to slide over as A319 rouge FO?
None of my business, but.....would it not be more advantageous to be mainline instead of rouge FO? Simple and honest question just out of curiosity.
That's been answered about 100 times already on this site. On this thread already actually.
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#23 Post by aV1aTOr » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:17 am

peeelot wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:02 am
I have been on blithe types in the right seat. Now in the left seat of EMJ. I think the EMJ sked is great flying max hours in only 15 days not 16 like you would on the bus. The EMJ is a great machine fun to fly but you do raise and lower the gear more than other fleets but you also have less sitting in hotel time. On the EMJ you will be able to control your sked faster which is nice. I was 30% on the Airbus and had no control over sked and doing 3-4 redeye which was hard on the body. Hope that helps
It would be helpful to note that you are referring to the 320 flying at YYZ which anyone would agree is some of the worst flying at AC. At less than 70% on the 320 in YVR I used to easily fly 14 days a month. And maybe one red eye every 3 or 4 months. I can't speak for the EMJ flying, but if I were awarded YYZ 320 out of the gate I'd try to transfer bases if feasible or even better slide over to Rouge 319 ASAP.
There's a good reason the YYZ 320 FO list currently shows 250 positions with only 41 pilots filling those spots....
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#24 Post by sofar » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:37 pm

You guys make me laugh...everything is about money...money here.,.money at Emirates..etc...my god... yes..money is nice....im sorry but generally speaking, even in the first 4 years at Air Canada..life is good and lots of fun. So please..,everyone....stop fr$!$&/ complaining...and try to enjoy life as it should be. I was there..with a wife and kid..,was doing all the sport i wanted..was travelling with the family...enjoying beer with friends... and still...i knew things would even get better....so please....pretty please..stop complaining...its amazing our first world problems.....
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Re: Narrowbody Preference: EMJ vs A320

#25 Post by confusedalot » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:16 pm

atphat wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:39 pm
confusedalot wrote:
Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:54 pm
Icebreaker wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:47 pm
If one were offered A320 mainline FO on the initial course how long would it take to slide over as A319 rouge FO?
None of my business, but.....would it not be more advantageous to be mainline instead of rouge FO? Simple and honest question just out of curiosity.
That's been answered about 100 times already on this site. On this thread already actually.
OK, Rouge is the way to go.......
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