A319 Issue

[pigboat]

Interesting report on AVHERALD.COM . 04 April 2018. ( Accident ) Spirit A319 at Boston on Jul 17th, 2015,fumes on board,.....pilot dies 50 days later.

Not your usual read! Worth a look.

[Flying Low]

For those looking for the report the original occurence date is July 17, 2015...

[infiniteregulus]

Sounds like a cover up!

[CL-Skadoo!]

http://avherald.com/h?article=4b6eb830&opt=0

[DanWEC]

Wow, if this is factual, it's scary stuff. How come it isn't bigger news?

[ahramin]

Too much to lose. It's massively cheaper to bury everything as much as possible, intimidate anyone who won't, and buy off whoever is left. It's a relatively small problem - between 1 in 100 and 1 in 5000 flights depending on who you ask - and the only ones that those odds don't work for are the crews, many of who lose their jobs if this goes public in a big way and people fly less.

[digits_]

Too much to lose. It's massively cheaper to bury everything as much as possible, intimidate anyone who won't, and buy off whoever is left. It's a relatively small problem - between 1 in 100 and 1 in 5000 flights depending on who you ask - and the only ones that those odds don't work for are the crews, many of who lose their jobs if this goes public in a big way and people fly less.

Is this a typical problem for the "big jets only", or does virtually every pressurized twin have these problems?

[BMLtech]

As a side note, the early jetliners such as the DC8 and B707 used turbo compressors to provide fresh air for the air conditioning, as in those days it was felt that the engine seal technology was not good enough to use compressor bleed air. Early turboprops also typically used cabin superchargers to provide compressed air.Things changed with the second generation of jets, and straight engine bleed air has been used ever since,up until the advent of the 787. One of the culprits for oil contamination on some types is APU bleed air due to APU failure or incorrect servicing. To answer your question, the aerotoxicity issue is said to affect turbine aircraft using compressor bleed air for pressurization, due to the organophosphates used in turbine engine oil.

[altiplano]

I believe the fact that Boeing invested so much in reinventing the wheel with fresh air pressurisation on the 787 says everything about what the data supports. I am sure all their clean sheet builds going forward will be that type.

That is a very scary report.

If you suspect anything! Strange smell, funny feeling... anything - get your mask on!

[infiniteregulus]

Now I'm gonna be paranoid every time I'm at work

[BMLtech]

http://www.aerotoxic.org/

[co-joe]

Definitely makes you wonder. Last year I had a stretch when I got a weird flu like thing on my days off, 3 tours in a row. Spent the whole time off, on the couch shivering, dizzy, with a head ache, short of breath. I went through a few theories, including putting a CO detector in my truck, and doing the home Radon gas test, to no avail. Then it went away. Now I wonder if maybe the AME's just happened to replace some seals on one engine or something. I asked around at work at the time and no one else had symptoms. The FO being 20 years younger would be more resilient, and the Medics get that air later than the pilots.

[pelmet]

From the earlier AvHerald link.....

"-Most pilots identify the odour of dirty old socks as a problem with the filters when in fact used turbine oils produce that odour. Lack of training, poor understanding, underreporting and weak FAA regulations cause understatement of the problem.

- Most Fume/Smoke Checklists do not correctly address environmental control system fumes.

- Possible solution: non-bleed aircraft like Boeing 787 or non-bleed options on other aircraft types."

But.....it looks like the 787 ain't so great after all. But at least the flight crew can wear O2 unlike the pax who had to breathe this stuff for a long time. I wonder if the pax were hoping for a diversion to Astana? Its nice apparently and a day there beats another two hours of fume breathing.


"C-FNOH, a Boeing 787-9 aircraft operated by Air Canada, was conducting flight ACA44 from Vancouver Intl, BC (CYVR) to New Delhi/Indira Gandhi Intl, India (VIDP) with 14 crew members and 238 passengers on board. During cruise flight approximately 20 nm Northeast of Astana Intl, Kazakhstan (UACC), the left hand cabin air compressor (CAC) experienced an uncommanded shut down, resulting in a burning/plastic smell throughout the aircraft. The flight crew assessed the situation and elected to continue to destination. The smell did not dissipate during the remainder of the flight and, as a precaution, the flight crew used oxygen for about 30 minutes during descent to FL100. The operator’s maintenance replaced the L2 CAC, in addition to the check valve as per the Aircraft Maintenance Manual (AMM)."

787 is nice, maybe I'll fly it one day just to see what the HUD is like.

[goingnowherefast]

That's it. I'm flying unpressurized airplanes from here on! Anybody got a nice safe modern Beech 99 to fly?

[Taxivasion]

Is this some hippy Chem trail stuff or does this dirty sock smell/ AeroToxic syndrome have any substance? I went over the website www.aerotoxic.org and it seems suspicious.

On more then one occasions I’ve smelled the dirty sock smell and mentioned it to maintenance who has brushed it off. Makes you wonder... if this is a problem, this is huge!

[goingnowherefast]

That website is a bit goofy and overdramatic, but fume events are very real. Very often it's visible fumes, quite obvious, and easy for maintenance to figure out. It's the invisible fumes and the "I smelled dirty socks" that's very hard to deal with. Maybe the other guy forgot to pack socks on a 4 day pairing?

[pelmet]

It would be nice if someone here could find out what the cause was for this....

"C-FIYA, a Boeing 767-300 aircraft operated by Air Canada rouge, was conducting flight ROU1947 from Lima/Jorge Chávez Intl, Perú (SPJC) to Toronto/Lester B. Person Intl, ON (CYYZ) with 9 crew members and 253 passengers on board. During cruise flight at FL320, approximately 260 nm North Northwest of SPJC, the cabin crew reported an odour in the cabin described as “dirty socks”. The odour was not detected in the cockpit, however the flight crew elected to return to SPJC and declared a PAN PAN. During the descent to SPJC, approximately 7 tons of fuel were jettisoned, and the aircraft landed overweight without further incident. The operator’s maintenance is investigating the cause."

Event date: 2018-08-12

[pelmet]

It would be nice if someone here could find out what the cause was for this....

"C-FIYA, a Boeing 767-300 aircraft operated by Air Canada rouge, was conducting flight ROU1947 from Lima/Jorge Chávez Intl, Perú (SPJC) to Toronto/Lester B. Person Intl, ON (CYYZ) with 9 crew members and 253 passengers on board. During cruise flight at FL320, approximately 260 nm North Northwest of SPJC, the cabin crew reported an odour in the cabin described as “dirty socks”. The odour was not detected in the cockpit, however the flight crew elected to return to SPJC and declared a PAN PAN. During the descent to SPJC, approximately 7 tons of fuel were jettisoned, and the aircraft landed overweight without further incident. The operator’s maintenance is investigating the cause."

Event date: 2018-08-12

Unfortunately, I recently experienced the dirty socks smell as well on two flights in a particular aircraft. A couple of days later there was a bleed air duct explosion causing loss of panels and damage to the aircraft requiring manufacturer repair and investigation. Perhaps the smell and the incident were a coincidence.

Meanwhile, a but more detail on a recent occurrence.....

C-GKOB, an Airbus 319-100 aircraft operated by Air Canada rouge, was conducting flight
ROU1803 from Kingston/Norman Manley Intl (MKJP), Jamaica to Toronto/Lester B. Pearson Intl
(CYYZ), ON with 5 crew members and 135 passengers on board. During cruise flight in the vicinity
of Raleigh/Durham Intl (KRDU), NC, the flight crew noted an odour in the flight deck described as
dirty socks. The odour dissipated, however subsequently returned with stronger intensity. The flight
crew donned their oxygen masks, declared a PAN PAN, and initiated a diversion to KRDU. The
aircraft subsequently landed at KRDU without further incident, with ARFF standing by.
A maintenance inspection identified the APU intake and plenum to be soiled, and were cleaned in
accordance with (IAW) the Aircraft Maintenance Manual (AMM). The APU condensers and pack
number 2 were found to be contaminated as well, and were replaced. An engine wash was
accomplished on both engines, and the aircraft was returned to service.

[Daniel Cooper]

Contaminated with what?

[ahramin]

Oil most likely.