altiplano wrote: ↑Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:20 am
Problem at the LCC is many won't wait for draft and go to work for 1.5x pay only, scooping your chance at 2.5x... and the awards aren't very transparent.
OT at mainline pays the 1.5x if you are working a full block, + another .5 if you're over 85 hours, so mostly at double time... FWIW.
I don't see too many at the LCC still on 8 day schedules except maybe shoulder season.
That's not true almost all overtime at rouge is 2.5x.
ZBBYLW wrote: ↑Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:22 pm
That's not true almost all overtime at rouge is 2.5x.
Not true?
What I said was exactly true.
Almost all?
Hardly.
What I said is exactly true... plenty of VO being done at 1.5.
Whatever peoples motives, or whether I agree it's irrelevant.... I just call it like I see it...
OT, Draft, whatever... but the 2.5x thing at the LCC is oversold... it isn't as widespread as some want to make it seem. I'm not speculating.
In need i see the odd person list for VO but from my experience it's been 90% or minute draft. FWIW every day I've listed for draft I've gotten a call. So even if 1 guy does a VO trip and gets their choice of flying there is plenty of draft. The other bases may be different I'm more discussing the Airbus in YYZ.
Anyhow it doesn't matter to argue, both are available options to pilots who want it.
Don’t know whether or not you’re at Rouge but I can speak from experience that there’s plenty of draft available. With the new contract, any “cold call” you get from crew sked to take a trip is automatically 2.5x. Also, pretty much every day I’ve listed myself for draft I’ve gotten a call. This is from the 67 FO side; not sure what the the 319 is like. Even if a few guys list for VO I still get plenty of draft.
The whole “not many guys work 8-10 days anymore” is incorrect as well. I can consistently work 8-10 days and have when I don’t feel like doing the overseas. We have daily MEX turns that are worth 9:10 credit as well as other very productive flying. A lot of guys choose to do a lot of the longer layovers because the places we fly to are amazing. I should probably stop selling it but the 767 at the LCC is a pretty sweet gig. IMHO obviously. For my lifestyle it provides the most flexibility, time off and cool flying.
Blue Side Up wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:21 am
The whole “not many guys work 8-10 days anymore” is incorrect as well. I can consistently work 8-10 days and have when I don’t feel like doing the overseas. We have daily MEX turns that are worth 9:10 credit as well as other very productive flying. A lot of guys choose to do a lot of the longer layovers because the places we fly to are amazing. I should probably stop selling it but the 767 at the LCC is a pretty sweet gig. IMHO obviously. For my lifestyle it provides the most flexibility, time off and cool flying.
Is that incorrect?
Because THE FACT is that nobody is working 8-10 on the latest schedule.
YYZ LCC767....
102 blockholder schedules:
78 work 16+ days
6 work 15 days
3 work 14 days
13 work 13 days
2 work 11 days
Clearly a new hire taking 767 can't plan on working 8-10 days. I take it you're an FO? How many days are you blocked next month? It obviously isn't 8-10. How about this month? Last month?
"Consistently" you say...
The company will get better as the LCC flying matures at having as many as possible, working as much as possible... 8-10 consistently? Not for many, and not outside the shoulder seasons.
Alright, alright let’s all take a deep breath! I’m not looking to start any arguments just speaking from experience. I can’t deny your facts there and appreciate you going through all the trouble of looking up the skeds of that many FOs. Can I ask if you are at Rouge or have ever been at Rouge?
My July was 10 days, August I decided to bid some longer layovers so my days are higher (72 hour layovers). Not going to say how many but it’s less than 16 even with the long layovers. It all depends on how you bid. If you don’t need specific days off you can bid to fly productive pairings and to avoid days worked greater than whatever. If you understand how the math works in PBS you can get consisitent results. It’s a computer program, it takes the inputs and tries to satisfy you within the pilot pool. Maybe I shouldn’t say you can consistently work 10 days but I’ve had many months where I bid productive flying and worked 9-12 days. It’s not out of the ordinary. I have a buddy on the 319 who worked 7 days in June.
You won’t get it every single month like you would in a senior position at mainline but I can guarantee you that as a new hire you’ll have a better sked at Rouge on the 67 than mainline 67. It’s not perfect but I’m pretty content with where I am.
What a lot of guys choose to do as well is bid to work 16 days but doing 48 or 72 hour layovers. So really if you’re blocked with 4 48 hour layovers, you’re only flying 8 legs that month (which I’ve done many times too). You are right that from June-end of August it’s more difficult to get those gravy skeds but our shoulder season is much longer than our peak season so your odds of having a productive sked are higher.
I’m not telling everyone how amazing Rouge is and how everyone should make the switch... Just speaking from my own experience and providing information from a regular line pilot. Are there tiring flights? Hell ya there are. Am I ever tired? Damn right I am. But I still love the gig and wouldn’t change it (besides getting rid of flat pay)
I think the more telling question is: Have you worked at Mainline?
I'm not disputing that the LCC is a good gig, you are possibly portraying it in an even more optimistic light however. I have been at the LCC and there was no where near the amount of draft being claimed on here... They have taken some of the best flying and the most productive flying from mainline, and it's interesting for sure. Really, overall and in the long run, wherever you end up at this airline, there are some good things going on... and no spot is forever if you don't like it.
As I posted earlier, I'm just trying to be accurate for people trying to make financial decisions, and have a true idea of what to expect coming here.
altiplano wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:19 pm
I think the more telling question is: Have you worked at Mainline?
I'm not disputing that the LCC is a good gig, you are possibly portraying it in an even more optimistic light however. I have been at the LCC and there was no where near the amount of draft being claimed on here... They have taken some of the best flying and the most productive flying from mainline, and it's interesting for sure. Really, overall and in the long run, wherever you end up at this airline, there are some good things going on... and no spot is forever if you don't like it.
As I posted earlier, I'm just trying to be accurate for people trying to make financial decisions, and have a true idea of what to expect coming here.
Sounds good man, I’m trying to do the same. Maybe it’s just the time we’re in but I haven’t had an issue getting draft when I wanted it in the 2+ years I’ve been at Rouge. Not saying it’ll be like that for everyone but that’s my experience.
Like you said, plenty of good stuff going on at AC and lots of variety for everyone. I get the LCC isn’t ideal for pilots in the long run and I see the issues with it cannabilizing routes/WAWCONs at mainline. I also see the benefit for the company in operating the same aircraft with 73 more seats at lower costs. I’ll leave the business decisions to the people who are steadily growing revenues at 10+ percent a year and I’ll comtinue to safely operate the aircraft.
Back to the main topic of how many vacancies on the latest bid. Good luck to all who apply!
