Cannabis Policy ???

[Jean-Pierre]

This marijuana leaf on the homepage is just a tease. 'Haha you can't have this. No no no.'

Alcohol_Drug-Policy-EN.jpg (166 KiB) Viewed 2629 times

[altiplano]

Last I checked, I wasn't being paid for the 12 hours that precedes my pairings

No, but you're being paid to arrive fit for duty.

As far as I'm concerned that, and being a law abiding person away from work are all an employer can unilaterally impose on you.

If you are prepared to accept one imposition, and then another, where does it end?

Will they require me to drive to work in an EV to minimize my carbon footprint?
Or avoid skiing to avoid an increase chance of requiring me to use my disability?
Will I have to eat only organic foods?

It's none of their business what any of us do in our free time as long as we follow the law and report fit for duty.

[Victory]

The argument is that you are not fit for duty if you have used cannabis at all. Until there is scientific studies on how it affects pilots the safe course of action is to not allow it. We know alcohol affects pilots negatively but it is allowed because we know generally how much it affects someone based on how much they consumed and how long ago. We don't know that for cannabis yet. There is also the risk of a compounding effect after prolonged use that may be more serious than with alcohol.

[Outlaw58]

Last I checked, I wasn't being paid for the 12 hours that precedes my pairings

No, but you're being paid to arrive fit for duty.

As far as I'm concerned that, and being a law abiding person away from work are all an employer can unilaterally impose on you.

If you are prepared to accept one imposition, and then another, where does it end?

Will they require me to drive to work in an EV to minimize my carbon footprint?
Or avoid skiing to avoid an increase chance of requiring me to use my disability?
Will I have to eat only organic foods?

It's none of their business what any of us do in our free time as long as we follow the law and report fit for duty.

See victory's post above.

It's illegal today and you can't use it no matter what. Comes October whatever when it becomes legal, even if the company deems it 100% incompatible with your duties as a pilot, you will not have lost anything...nada. Why can't the population as a whole just be happy that it is becoming legal, that is a new freedom they didn't have before even if it is heavily restricted at first. It's going to be a helluva lot harder to put the genie back in the bottle once it's out.

I have zero tolerance right now for folks who show up for work under the influence of alcohol, or yet, heavily hungover even though by the rules, they have followed their 12 hours. I find that attitude extremely unprofessional and dare I say that I view the desire to use and continue to fly equally unprofessional. I however do respect civil liberties and as long as the law is followed, you won't here me bleep more than what I have already expressed here. Until then, when the law isn't set in stone, I'll be damned if I don't speak my mind.

58

[altiplano]

You should have zero tolerance for people who show up under the influence.

That's not what I'm saying, I will agree that we need to see a larger body of work on this issue if anything is to be imposed. The Canadian Forces have come out with their policy. Air Canada has gone beyond it. Why hasn't Transport Canada come up with anything?

Better hurry up.

Until then... fit for duty and follow the law.
Employers have no right to impose anying more, if they want more - no problem - but it's contractual/terms of employment and negotiable.

I don't care if it's a joint or the proximity of my home to my workplace or the colour of my car.

It's the principle of it.

[CanadianEh]

You should have zero tolerance for people who show up under the influence.

That's not what I'm saying, I will agree that we need to see a larger body of work on this issue if anything is to be imposed. The Canadian Forces have come out with their policy. Air Canada has gone beyond it. Why hasn't Transport Canada come up with anything?

Better hurry up.

Until then... fit for duty and follow the law.
Employers have no right to impose anying more, if they want more - no problem - but it's contractual/terms of employment and negotiable.

I don't care if it's a joint or the proximity of my home to my workplace or the colour of my car.

It's the principle of it.

+1

[Dry Guy]

It's the principle of it.

That's very brave of you. I would be terrified of being tested in the U.S., Europe, Asia, or any of the other places that do random drug testing on airline pilots after they land.

[C.W.E.]

I would be terrified of being tested in the U.S., Europe, Asia, or any of the other places that do random drug testing on airline pilots after they land.

A random test that shows positive may end your career as a pilot in some cases.

But of course you can claim it is your right to do whatever you want.

[FL410AV8R]

Let me preface this by saying I have no intention or desire to indulge in any of these soon to be legalized products in any form, smoked, baked, fried or otherwise.

What concerns me is the issue of second-hand exposure, it isn't legal yet but I have smelled the unmistakable odour of weed more in the last 12 months than I have in the past many many years that I can recall. When people can smoke this openly it is going to get a lot more hard to avoid.

What level of second-hand exposure will trigger a positive result on a drug test? Does anyone know? I know I will be excusing myself from a lot of social gatherings if this materializes as I believe it will. I just can't afford to be exposed and put my career at risk until some reliable science is done on exposure and metabolism.

Thoughts?

[altiplano]

It's the principle of it.

That's very brave of you. I would be terrified of being tested in the U.S., Europe, Asia, or any of the other places that do random drug testing on airline pilots after they land.

Is it that difficult to comprehend?

I'm not saying I want to start smoking pot for the principle of it.

I'm saying if an organisation wants to direct my legal behaviour in my free time there is a cost associated with that. They don't get to do that unilaterally.

[Outlaw58]

"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds."

- Frank Zappa

It is as valid for me as anyone else here

58

[seven-oh-nooo]

I'll tell ya what sucks: nobody has any answers. Transport hasn't publicly lifted a finger on offering any guidance at all for this, they best they'll commit to is 602.03 which is absolute fluff of the same type they write when they want to retain the ability to punish you whenever and however they like. "No person shall act as a crew member of an aircraft while using any drug that impairs the person’s faculties to the extent that the safety of the aircraft or of persons on board the aircraft is endangered in any way," will vary from person to person and the way by which it's measured can't be locked down. For all intents and purposes it's useless to all but a vindictive inspector.

Now on the other side you have a company trying to write a dope policy while Transport, who is supposed to be in charge and demonstrating leadership, telling them they're on their own. At some point in the not-too-distant future there will be headline news about someone in a trusted position showing up for work high or making a mistake and that coming out as a contributing factor. When that happens it's reasonable for me to expect a letter from our favourite regulatory spaceman demanding answers, even if it wasn't my pilot. Same thing happened when that Sunwing(?) pilot showed up for work drunk a while back, except that time there was actually a way that I could demonstrate company compliance with the law.

This is why in the next week or two as we see more and more pot policies published and shared here I expect the trend to be seen as harsh. If you don't like it, take it up with Transport.

[altiplano]

"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds."

- Frank Zappa

It is as valid for me as anyone else here

58

Can the company tell you to do whatever they want?

Where do you draw the line?

What if - in order to harmonize and make consistent their drug and alcohol policy - they ban alcohol usage outright at all times for flight crew?

Is that okay?

What if - in order to address industry wide fatigue concerns - they ban any commuting whether flying or driving, and mandate that you live within 30 km of your base?

What if - in order to address road safety concerns - they require you to commute home on public transit or by taxi for any duty days greater than 12 hours, or overnight flight duty periods. At your expense, of course.

No problem?

[Outlaw58]

"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds."

- Frank Zappa

It is as valid for me as anyone else here

58

Can the company tell you to do whatever they want?

Where do you draw the line?

What if - in order to harmonize and make consistent their drug and alcohol policy - they ban alcohol usage outright at all times for flight crew?

Is that okay?

What if - in order to address industry wide fatigue concerns - they ban any commuting whether flying or driving, and mandate that you live within 30 km of your base?

What if - in order to address road safety concerns - they require you to commute home on public transit or by taxi for any duty days greater than 12 hours, or overnight flight duty periods. At your expense, of course.

No problem?

Former military pilot here.

Forced to live within a certain distance of my base, forced to move with my family every 3-4 years, survived many alcohol ban during the many ops and exercise I went on, etc.. etc... All of it I did willingly cause I knew the kind of business I was in and when I eventually did get fed up, I pulled the plug.

Joined the airline very recently and knowingly took a severe pay cut and I accept the many restrictions imposed so that I can continue a flying career that I love. Again, if or when I do get fed up with those restrictions, I have all the freedom in the world to walk away.

I accept the restrictions because, my desire to work in this industry outweigh the inconvenience of aforementioned restrictions.... until it doesn't anymore. Then I walk away. That's where I draw the line.

58

[altiplano]

Gotcha. You'd rather quit than stand up for yourself and your position.

But I'm not listening to orders from a General here, we are governed by a contract. The company can impose procedures and restrictions for how we do some things at work, operate the aircraft, wear the uniform, etc. But they have no standing in imposing anything beyond the law or the contract outside the workplace.

We'll see what Transport comes up with, if anything, and of the company wants more... it has a cost... there are many things we need to fix.

[Mr. North]

]

Former military pilot here.

Thank you for your service.

However, just because you subjected yourself to a life of military discipline doesn't mean the rest of us are required to make the same sacrifices. There is such a thing as life outside work. I'm all for being a professional and showing up fit to fly. But if a company wants to dictate the entirety of my life I should be compensated a good deal more than parking brake on and off.

It is cannabis today but it could very well be alcohol tomorrow. Followed by red meat or sugar, say why don't you wear this fitness tracker? While we're at it lets geotrack your phone, social media, and search history. You don't care because you have nothing to hide right...? I think it's perfectly acceptable to question our orders here. Whether it applies to you or not, any infringement on a pilot's personal life should be challenged, debated, and resolved between parties.

Hello 1984.

[Jean-Pierre]

I hope it doesn't come out in the world news that Air Canada pilot are fighting for the right to smoke marijuana. The reputation has taken enough hit already.

[Outlaw58]

All I am saying is Cannabis is illegal now.

Let's open the valve slowly and if it goes well, open it even more, little by little.

It's not even legal yet and folks are already enraged at the possibility that we might not go bleeds to MAX right away! Let's rejoice that we have a new freedom; even if it is heavily restricted, it still is something that we didn't have before.

58

[Outlaw58]

Gotcha. You'd rather quit than stand up for yourself and your position.

But I'm not listening to orders from a General here, we are governed by a contract. The company can impose procedures and restrictions for how we do some things at work, operate the aircraft, wear the uniform, etc. But they have no standing in imposing anything beyond the law or the contract outside the workplace.

We'll see what Transport comes up with, if anything, and of the company wants more... it has a cost... there are many things we need to fix.

Way to twist my words.

Get me a fight worth fighting for (this isn't) and poke the military pushover. See what happens.

58

[altiplano]

Cannabis is irrelevant. Can you see that?

Fight worth fighting? Is your contract worth fighting for?

This is a business relationship, and a corporation dictating your personal freedom.

It doesn't matter what it is. It doesn't matter that it was a change in the law.

The corporation will use every bit of leverage they can possibly acquire against your earnings and working conditions.

This is leverage for us. That is all. It has nothing to do with me wanting to smoke pot, which I don't.

The corporation sees the legalization as a problem - but it's their problem, whether optics or liability - and they want a policy banning it outright. I say no problem, but there is a cost to having any say on my personal time, and that cost is that they have to fix some of the problems we have in our contract.

It's the name of the game. Doesn't matter what it is.

I'll scratch yours, you scratch mine.

Giving it away like a bunch of amateurs like we have been doing with everything else is a mistake. This is an opportunity. Don't squander it.