Operational question

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Old fella
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Operational question

Post by Old fella »

What happens on a domestic flight, let’s say YYZ-YYT the crew shows up at the required time and the YYT winds and wx are howling to a point the flight is cancelled. Is this crew then assigned another trip within the system subject to duty regulations, do they have the option of saying no or what are the options. Also if they are notified prior to going to airport, they get reassigned as well.
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Lightchop
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Re: Operational question

Post by Lightchop »

At Jazz you are usually "subject for reassignment" for the time until your next flight (may involve a DH now or a new turn) or if it's your last flight and its cancelled they have two hours from the time it was cancelled to assign you something else or you are released.
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Lightchop
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Re: Operational question

Post by Lightchop »

If its cancelled prior to check in you need to be contactable two hours before the original departure time for reassignment. After which you're released. If you have more flights that day your check in now moves to an hour before that flight.
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yycflyguy
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Re: Operational question

Post by yycflyguy »

Old fella wrote: Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:11 pm What happens on a domestic flight, let’s say YYZ-YYT the crew shows up at the required time and the YYT winds and wx are howling to a point the flight is cancelled. Is this crew then assigned another trip within the system subject to duty regulations, do they have the option of saying no or what are the options. Also if they are notified prior to going to airport, they get reassigned as well.
Like everything at AC... it's complicated.

If you are a pilot on reserve and a flight is cancelled you are still on reserve for any other assignment.

If you are a block holder and they cancel before check in you can accept or decline pay protection. If you accept pay protection they will normally have another assignment with open flying to give you right way. If you decline pay protection, you are out that money/credit. You can only get it back by listing for Make-Up; which puts you higher on the list of open flying than reserve, Voluntary Overtime etc.

If the flight is cancelled after check in; you are placed on Pairing Integrity where they will deadhead/operate to a different flight to catch the rest of your pairing.

FWIW; SOC generally only cancels flights to destinations with multiple flights per day during severe weather (freezing rain event, blizzards). For example YYZ-YOW will cancel three or four hours worth and then put a wide body aircraft on it to accommodate the passenger backup. From my experience, if there are high winds (xwinds) onto wet/contaminated runways, it is up to the crew to accept/refuse the flight. In retrospect, ac624 (the YHZ "hard landing") should never have left YYZ.

The last wind event in Atlantic Canada resulted in a bunch of flights flying all the way to destination just to turn around and go to their long alternates of YUL/YYZ.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Operational question

Post by goingnowherefast »

yycflyguy wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:12 amThe last wind event in Atlantic Canada resulted in a bunch of flights flying all the way to destination just to turn around and go to their long alternates of YUL/YYZ.
Not specifically picking on AC. I've always wondered why any operations center will dispatch knowing the plane is very likely to end up at an alternate.
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Lightchop
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Re: Operational question

Post by Lightchop »

goingnowherefast wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:53 pm
yycflyguy wrote: Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:12 amThe last wind event in Atlantic Canada resulted in a bunch of flights flying all the way to destination just to turn around and go to their long alternates of YUL/YYZ.
Not specifically picking on AC. I've always wondered why any operations center will dispatch knowing the plane is very likely to end up at an alternate.
It's all about the optics. Dispatch a flight and it didn't get in? Well, it's not listed as a "cancelled" flight now. The amount of times I've flown somewhere I knew we wouldn't get in because Commercial said to go is too damn high.
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av8ts
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Re: Operational question

Post by av8ts »

Isn’t the pilots job to run the airplane and the companies job to run the airline. If the company says we want you to fly here and if you can’t safely land then go to your alternate then as a pilot that’s your job.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Operational question

Post by goingnowherefast »

I get that. Just seems like a tremendous waste of money.

Just make sure the alternate is a good one, and not the closest one.
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altiplano
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Re: Operational question

Post by altiplano »

av8ts wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:02 am Isn’t the pilots job to run the airplane and the companies job to run the airline. If the company says we want you to fly here and if you can’t safely land then go to your alternate then as a pilot that’s your job.
To an extent... send me with fuel to come back to YUL or YYZ sure... but give me Stephenville or something as an alternate, middle of the night, call out for refuel, minimal facilities, 150+ people in the winter, approaching the end of a long day, with probable chance that's where I'll end up? "Uhhh... No." I don't need that aggravation, neither do the passengers.
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av8ts
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Re: Operational question

Post by av8ts »

altiplano wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:12 am
av8ts wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:02 am Isn’t the pilots job to run the airplane and the companies job to run the airline. If the company says we want you to fly here and if you can’t safely land then go to your alternate then as a pilot that’s your job.
To an extent... send me with fuel to come back to YUL or YYZ sure... but give me Stephenville or something as an alternate, middle of the night, call out for refuel, minimal facilities, 150+ people in the winter, approaching the end of a long day, with probable chance that's where I'll end up? "Uhhh... No." I don't need that aggravation, neither do the passengers.
You forgot no bridge, -20 degrees outside, fading taxi lines, moonless night, expensive fuel from a foreign built truck, blaa blaaa blaaa
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altiplano
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Re: Operational question

Post by altiplano »

av8ts wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:28 am
altiplano wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:12 am
av8ts wrote: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:02 am Isn’t the pilots job to run the airplane and the companies job to run the airline. If the company says we want you to fly here and if you can’t safely land then go to your alternate then as a pilot that’s your job.
To an extent... send me with fuel to come back to YUL or YYZ sure... but give me Stephenville or something as an alternate, middle of the night, call out for refuel, minimal facilities, 150+ people in the winter, approaching the end of a long day, with probable chance that's where I'll end up? "Uhhh... No." I don't need that aggravation, neither do the passengers.
You forgot no bridge, -20 degrees outside, fading taxi lines, moonless night, expensive fuel from a foreign built truck, blaa blaaa blaaa
Maybe it seems like bullshit to you but that's my take on it... I'm not putting myself in that situation...
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goingnowherefast
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Re: Operational question

Post by goingnowherefast »

If I'm likely to end up at my alternate, I make sure it's a good alternate. Weather wise foremost, not just bare minimum legal requirements. Also for the above mentioned support.
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