AC New hires please use your WB bid

[Daniel Cooper]

The only upside I can think of is getting the type rating and getting out.

Calin says if that's what you want to do go ahead.

[Ratherbe]

Forced to? You are rarely forced to do anything in this job.

Other than forced reduced, forced layoff, forced GDIP, forced retirement, forced vacation and forced out on reserve I guess your correct.

Reality is that in order to get the better pay, better pension and a better schedule you have to bid to a wide body position at some point. Unless you were hired at a later age or unless you choose to stay on domestic. That’s likely why the 10 year deal past at over 80%. It promised and delivered way more wide body jobs. Personally I think they likely would have shown up anyway but that’s another story.

Your views about pay are old school. Lots of airlines in North America have gone to a different pay system that allows pilots to maximize their pay without having to take course after course. We’re soon going to have numerous NB types in fleet with different pay rates. Now that we seem to be buying more 330’s we will have the same issue on the WB. Why not group the types together add the training savings (at least $45 k per course) and come out with a pay system that delivers the cash earlier in a pilots career?

Yes the the top positions in each type would be occupied by senior pilots - that means seniority is respected better.

[altiplano]

You're quoting my statement out of context and then applying the few circumstance...

Is my view "old school"?

Don't think so... I just think it is this or that...

Socialized or seniority.

Lots of airlines in North America have gone to a different pay system that allows pilots to maximize their pay without having to take course after course.

Name them.

If you want to socialize pay, you have to socialize bidding. I don't want either. I'll never be a WB Cap under seniority and it is what it is... I'd rather make my slightly smaller pile of money and have complete control of my life and schedule.

the the top positions in each type would be occupied by senior pilots - that means seniority is respected better.

If by that you mean sacrifice pay for the senior and reduce choice and lifestyle for the junior, I guess so...

[Ratherbe]

United, FedEx, KLM and partially at Delta. I think BA still has a form of status pay, and I’m sure there must be others.

Yes, although I’m now senior I have always been in favour of re-adjusting how much seniority entitles us to. Socialist? Nope. I just think there should not be a huge imbalance in pay and life style for pilots who basically perform the same work.

I appreciate that you and others don’t want change but a lot of pilots aren’t happy with either their pay and especially their schedule- except of course for the very few at the very top of their positions.

[altiplano]

United and Delta have multiple different pay rates. 737/320 on the same rate, that kind of thing...

Not straight CA / FO or NB / WB like was thrown around in TA1 and I think is what is being talked about here.

I'll agree we could blend 320/737 rates. Possibly 4 or 5 different rates could be agreed on. But not straight NB/WB.

I also agree with you on the level of the imbalance to an extent and I agree some adjustments are needed. We shouldn't have members working 16, let alone 20 - but some of that is self inflicted... watching those junior members bid to the bottom of the 777, the fact they will be there for a long long time, that's on them - Nonetheless, I think those gains will to be achieved by pressuring the corporation, by achieving calendar daily credit, by fixing productivity, getting meaningful amounts of vacation offered in the prime times, and other solutions.

[Redwine]

.....And become the lowest paid WB FO’s in the world. Someone please give me an upside to this.

What do you mean "Become"? We are- and always have been....

[Daniel Cooper]

What did you guys do? All the new hire WB FO's bid back to NB

[pianokeys]

No one cares what you mean asshat

Youre my new friend.

[annonyous123]

I'm on the fence with the socialized bidding/status pay......While I agree its fawkin bull that the old farts get to be off from Dec15-Jan5 and work 4 days a month from Jun-Sept. I also like being able to bid a position and be SR. Even though its not the exact position I would pick in a perfect world. It gives me some control. If we are all socialized wouldn't we be like WJ and everyone works 16 days a month forever?