Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

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maturepilot83
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Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by maturepilot83 »

Link: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-sco ... -1.5062354

What does this mean for future hiring and existing crews on the 737?
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Victory
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by Victory »

Setting a date of July 1 makes me hopeful the company will pay 737 crews until that date. I imagine there will be a hiring freeze as retraining current pilots will be the priority. I don't see this type regaing airworthiness any time soon.
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Fanblade
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by Fanblade »

Victory wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:25 am
Setting a date of July 1 makes me hopeful the company will pay 737 crews until that date. I imagine there will be a hiring freeze as retraining current pilots will be the priority. I don't see this type regaing airworthiness any time soon.
Your reading into the message from AC wrong. AC has used July 1 as a conservative estimate. They believe it will be sooner. My guess is late April. Ramp up in May. Full sked June.

737 crews are not being retrained. They are heading to the sim to stay current. Some who just started a transition ground school to a different aircraft have had that delayed.
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schnitzel2k3
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

And just like that, the music can stop, at least temporarily.

S.
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CZBBYYZPilot
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by CZBBYYZPilot »

I don't believe the music has stopped. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but ground school dates are proceeding as scheduled as far as I know.
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yycflyguy
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by yycflyguy »

I haven't read anywhere that this will even slow the current hiring rate. They were planning on 40 a month, even through summertime for the rest of the year.
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infiniteregulus
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by infiniteregulus »

Enjoy the paid vacation boys and girls hahaha
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by Daniel Cooper »

Vacation? I called my old CP and asked if I can come back for a couple months. At least throw a resume into Home Depot or something.
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JohnnyHotRocks
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by JohnnyHotRocks »

Paid vacation my a$$
FOs are now bringing home $1200 a month due to lack of work.
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Victory
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by Victory »

How is that possible? I thought year 1-4 were getting 75 hours a month and 5-12 were getting 70?
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by altiplano »

Victory wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:27 pm
How is that possible? I thought year 1-4 were getting 75 hours a month and 5-12 were getting 70?
That's correct.

Nobody is bringing home $1200/mo.
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JohnnyHotRocks
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by JohnnyHotRocks »

altiplano wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:42 pm
Victory wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:27 pm
How is that possible? I thought year 1-4 were getting 75 hours a month and 5-12 were getting 70?
That's correct.

Nobody is bringing home $1200/mo.
I wish it were not true, but I understand that some of your colleagues are in dire financial straits
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Sharklasers
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by Sharklasers »

It was just explained how it's impossible for anyone to be bringing home 1200 a month and that's your retort?
It's clear you don't know what your talking about and should probably do less of it.
So I'll try again.

The most Jr FO on year one pay will be receiving $60.60X75 for the duration of the shutdown.
4545 so about $3100 take home.

The most jr FO off flat pay will receive $112x70
7840. 4000 take home.

It's not great but it's a lot more than your made up number.
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'97 Tercel
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by '97 Tercel »

Fake news and mis-information on this site?!? Say it ain't so!
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JohnnyHotRocks
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by JohnnyHotRocks »

I guess my source was lying then. Must have some other financial pressures. Maybe a divorce or gambling addiction.
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by yvrflyguy »

JohnnyHotRocks wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:03 pm
Paid vacation my a$$
FOs are now bringing home $1200 a month due to lack of work.
Pretty bold statement for someone who clearly doesn't work at AC. Year 1 FO here and I will take home $3200 with a 6% ESOP match, which is another $280 or something like that.
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by SPR »

yvrflyguy wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:52 am
Year 1 FO here and I will take home $3200 with a 6% ESOP match, which is another $280 or something like that.
Seriously? That's what I took home when I was an Encore FO without pulling any overtime, but I got a 10% match. :lol:
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Sharklasers
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by Sharklasers »

SPR wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:54 pm
yvrflyguy wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:52 am
Year 1 FO here and I will take home $3200 with a 6% ESOP match, which is another $280 or something like that.
Seriously? That's what I took home when I was an Encore FO without pulling any overtime, but I got a 10% match. :lol:
Your first year pay at encore is ~42.75 an hours so unless your counting your perdiems or doing a pile of OT you were not taking home $3200 a month, which I might add is for a 75 hour month after paying into the stock match.

Also how's your pension/benefits/hope of career progression over there?
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Last edited by Sharklasers on Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

yycflyguy
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by yycflyguy »

JohnnyHotRocks wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:03 pm
Paid vacation my a$$
FOs are now bringing home $1200 a month due to lack of work.
You possibly heard the $1200 take home for the 17th pay check which deducts the "advance" received on the first of the month. I'm not sure off the top of my head but I think FO advances are $3000 on the 1st. I'm too lazy to get into the contract for it.
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altiplano
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by altiplano »

Your info is definitely wrong... maybe his wages are being garnished...

On top of the above numbers... pensions still be paid, esop still being matched, benefits still being paid by the corp...

It's not a perfect deal, but nobody is being screwed...
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mbav8r
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by mbav8r »

Just for clarity, are the 737 crews being paid the minimum monthly guarantee while their aircraft is offline?
If yes, what is the minimum guarantee for the 737 crews?
My thoughts, if not guaranteed full pay while off, could crews bid to another type, if yes that will set up a delay for the 37s return to flying.
Obviously if all crews bid out, their replacements will have to get trained up, would need a lead time to do that.
Thinking it would be in ACs best interest to just pay them to sit around, at least until the full picture of how long until recertification.
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by Dry Guy »

Somebody has crunched the numbers and decided it's cheaper to pay them to stay home until X date than retrain them. If date X is before the MAX returns they save money. If it's after they lose. Just to guess at numbers, say they pay the average MAX pilot $10k to stay home, and to retrain costs them $30k that would make 3 months for the break even date.
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by Victory »

Ironically everyone is going to bid off it as soon as it's not free money, ruining the whole plan. Because imagine how annoying it will be to explain to people you're a MAX pilot for the next few years. "Oooooh."
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by altiplano »

mbav8r wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:55 pm
Just for clarity, are the 737 crews being paid the minimum monthly guarantee while their aircraft is offline?
If yes, what is the minimum guarantee for the 737 crews?
My thoughts, if not guaranteed full pay while off, could crews bid to another type, if yes that will set up a delay for the 37s return to flying.
Obviously if all crews bid out, their replacements will have to get trained up, would need a lead time to do that.
Thinking it would be in ACs best interest to just pay them to sit around, at least until the full picture of how long until recertification.
Captains and FOs year 5+ are getting 70 hours/month.
FOs year 1-4 are getting 75 hours a month.

Plus the union made concessions to achieve that. Primarily in wet lease pay credits, scope ratios, and training rights.

Nobody is missing their alimony payments on this, but some guys think just getting paid something is enough in this uncertainty.

Really though, the union had immense leverage here but squandered it... Had AC decided to not pay, they would have had to reduce on the type, not only would they have paid more in salary (80hrs/month training/transition pay), they would have paid for 100's of courses, and the 100's of more courses the reductions would have triggered, all that lost productivity, only to have to retrain/reinstate for the type at some point...

Plus the manufacturer will be paying for all this Abid record profits for them and the airline... this is a business choice that we labour should have done better on...

The 737 guys deserve better given all the uncertainty and bullshit here. ACPA shouldn't be bending at all.
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a220hereicome
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Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by a220hereicome »

altiplano wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:53 pm

Plus the union made concessions to achieve that. Primarily in wet lease pay credits, scope ratios, and training rights...

Really though, the union had immense leverage here but squandered it... Had AC decided to not pay, they would have had to reduce on the type, not only would they have paid more in salary (80hrs/month training/transition pay), they would have paid for 100's of courses, and the 100's of more courses the reductions would have triggered, all that lost productivity, only to have to retrain/reinstate for the type at some point...

Plus the manufacturer will be paying for all this Abid record profits for them and the airline... this is a business choice that we labour should have done better on...

The 737 guys deserve better given all the uncertainty and bullshit here. ACPA shouldn't be bending at all.
I was under the impression that the ACPA MEC had shifted to a much more militant stance. If the airplane is down for two to three months (seems to be the general educated guess), what leverage do you think ACPA had knowing that the Company had language of 'grounding through no fault of their own' that could let them walk away without paying the MAX crews a single dollar for three months? I don't think that would have been a good idea, as they would have needed the rest of the crews to pick up the slack, read in goodwill, but do you think the MEC could have squeezed more?

TD
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