Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Discuss topics relating to Air Canada.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, Sulako, North Shore

maturepilot83
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:01 am

Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by maturepilot83 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:40 am

Link: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-sco ... -1.5062354

What does this mean for future hiring and existing crews on the 737?
---------- ADS -----------
  

Victory
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:32 am

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by Victory » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:25 am

Setting a date of July 1 makes me hopeful the company will pay 737 crews until that date. I imagine there will be a hiring freeze as retraining current pilots will be the priority. I don't see this type regaing airworthiness any time soon.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Fanblade
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 863
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:50 pm

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by Fanblade » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:59 pm

Victory wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:25 am
Setting a date of July 1 makes me hopeful the company will pay 737 crews until that date. I imagine there will be a hiring freeze as retraining current pilots will be the priority. I don't see this type regaing airworthiness any time soon.
Your reading into the message from AC wrong. AC has used July 1 as a conservative estimate. They believe it will be sooner. My guess is late April. Ramp up in May. Full sked June.

737 crews are not being retrained. They are heading to the sim to stay current. Some who just started a transition ground school to a different aircraft have had that delayed.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
schnitzel2k3
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 786
Joined: Sun May 15, 2011 11:17 pm

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by schnitzel2k3 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:10 pm

And just like that, the music can stop, at least temporarily.

S.
---------- ADS -----------
  

CZBBYYZPilot
Rank 2
Rank 2
Posts: 64
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:20 am

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by CZBBYYZPilot » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:32 am

I don't believe the music has stopped. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but ground school dates are proceeding as scheduled as far as I know.
---------- ADS -----------
  

yycflyguy
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2696
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:18 am

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by yycflyguy » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:14 am

I haven't read anywhere that this will even slow the current hiring rate. They were planning on 40 a month, even through summertime for the rest of the year.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
infiniteregulus
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:46 am

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by infiniteregulus » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:42 pm

Enjoy the paid vacation boys and girls hahaha
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
Daniel Cooper
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 162
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:38 am
Location: Unknown

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by Daniel Cooper » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:02 pm

Vacation? I called my old CP and asked if I can come back for a couple months. At least throw a resume into Home Depot or something.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
JohnnyHotRocks
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 976
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:18 am

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:03 pm

Paid vacation my a$$
FOs are now bringing home $1200 a month due to lack of work.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Victory
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:32 am

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by Victory » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:27 pm

How is that possible? I thought year 1-4 were getting 75 hours a month and 5-12 were getting 70?
---------- ADS -----------
  

altiplano
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3582
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by altiplano » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:42 pm

Victory wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:27 pm
How is that possible? I thought year 1-4 were getting 75 hours a month and 5-12 were getting 70?
That's correct.

Nobody is bringing home $1200/mo.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
JohnnyHotRocks
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 976
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:18 am

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:03 am

altiplano wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:42 pm
Victory wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:27 pm
How is that possible? I thought year 1-4 were getting 75 hours a month and 5-12 were getting 70?
That's correct.

Nobody is bringing home $1200/mo.
I wish it were not true, but I understand that some of your colleagues are in dire financial straits
---------- ADS -----------
  

Sharklasers
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by Sharklasers » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:23 am

It was just explained how it's impossible for anyone to be bringing home 1200 a month and that's your retort?
It's clear you don't know what your talking about and should probably do less of it.
So I'll try again.

The most Jr FO on year one pay will be receiving $60.60X75 for the duration of the shutdown.
4545 so about $3100 take home.

The most jr FO off flat pay will receive $112x70
7840. 4000 take home.

It's not great but it's a lot more than your made up number.
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
'97 Tercel
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 400
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:19 pm

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by '97 Tercel » Tue Mar 26, 2019 7:42 am

Fake news and mis-information on this site?!? Say it ain't so!
---------- ADS -----------
  

User avatar
JohnnyHotRocks
Rank 8
Rank 8
Posts: 976
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:18 am

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Tue Mar 26, 2019 10:13 am

I guess my source was lying then. Must have some other financial pressures. Maybe a divorce or gambling addiction.
---------- ADS -----------
  

yvrflyguy
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:30 am

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by yvrflyguy » Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:52 am

JohnnyHotRocks wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:03 pm
Paid vacation my a$$
FOs are now bringing home $1200 a month due to lack of work.
Pretty bold statement for someone who clearly doesn't work at AC. Year 1 FO here and I will take home $3200 with a 6% ESOP match, which is another $280 or something like that.
---------- ADS -----------
  

SPR
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:32 pm

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by SPR » Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:54 pm

yvrflyguy wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:52 am
Year 1 FO here and I will take home $3200 with a 6% ESOP match, which is another $280 or something like that.
Seriously? That's what I took home when I was an Encore FO without pulling any overtime, but I got a 10% match. :lol:
---------- ADS -----------
  

Sharklasers
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon May 29, 2017 5:24 pm

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by Sharklasers » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:40 pm

SPR wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:54 pm
yvrflyguy wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:52 am
Year 1 FO here and I will take home $3200 with a 6% ESOP match, which is another $280 or something like that.
Seriously? That's what I took home when I was an Encore FO without pulling any overtime, but I got a 10% match. :lol:
Your first year pay at encore is ~42.75 an hours so unless your counting your perdiems or doing a pile of OT you were not taking home $3200 a month, which I might add is for a 75 hour month after paying into the stock match.

Also how's your pension/benefits/hope of career progression over there?
---------- ADS -----------
  
Last edited by Sharklasers on Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

yycflyguy
Rank 10
Rank 10
Posts: 2696
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 9:18 am

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by yycflyguy » Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:43 pm

JohnnyHotRocks wrote:
Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:03 pm
Paid vacation my a$$
FOs are now bringing home $1200 a month due to lack of work.
You possibly heard the $1200 take home for the 17th pay check which deducts the "advance" received on the first of the month. I'm not sure off the top of my head but I think FO advances are $3000 on the 1st. I'm too lazy to get into the contract for it.
---------- ADS -----------
  

altiplano
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3582
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by altiplano » Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:45 pm

Your info is definitely wrong... maybe his wages are being garnished...

On top of the above numbers... pensions still be paid, esop still being matched, benefits still being paid by the corp...

It's not a perfect deal, but nobody is being screwed...
---------- ADS -----------
  

mbav8r
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
Posts: 1933
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2006 8:11 am
Location: Manitoba

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by mbav8r » Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:55 pm

Just for clarity, are the 737 crews being paid the minimum monthly guarantee while their aircraft is offline?
If yes, what is the minimum guarantee for the 737 crews?
My thoughts, if not guaranteed full pay while off, could crews bid to another type, if yes that will set up a delay for the 37s return to flying.
Obviously if all crews bid out, their replacements will have to get trained up, would need a lead time to do that.
Thinking it would be in ACs best interest to just pay them to sit around, at least until the full picture of how long until recertification.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Dry Guy
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 133
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:44 pm

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by Dry Guy » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:09 pm

Somebody has crunched the numbers and decided it's cheaper to pay them to stay home until X date than retrain them. If date X is before the MAX returns they save money. If it's after they lose. Just to guess at numbers, say they pay the average MAX pilot $10k to stay home, and to retrain costs them $30k that would make 3 months for the break even date.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Victory
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 414
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:32 am

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by Victory » Tue Mar 26, 2019 6:58 pm

Ironically everyone is going to bid off it as soon as it's not free money, ruining the whole plan. Because imagine how annoying it will be to explain to people you're a MAX pilot for the next few years. "Oooooh."
---------- ADS -----------
  

altiplano
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3582
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by altiplano » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:53 pm

mbav8r wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:55 pm
Just for clarity, are the 737 crews being paid the minimum monthly guarantee while their aircraft is offline?
If yes, what is the minimum guarantee for the 737 crews?
My thoughts, if not guaranteed full pay while off, could crews bid to another type, if yes that will set up a delay for the 37s return to flying.
Obviously if all crews bid out, their replacements will have to get trained up, would need a lead time to do that.
Thinking it would be in ACs best interest to just pay them to sit around, at least until the full picture of how long until recertification.
Captains and FOs year 5+ are getting 70 hours/month.
FOs year 1-4 are getting 75 hours a month.

Plus the union made concessions to achieve that. Primarily in wet lease pay credits, scope ratios, and training rights.

Nobody is missing their alimony payments on this, but some guys think just getting paid something is enough in this uncertainty.

Really though, the union had immense leverage here but squandered it... Had AC decided to not pay, they would have had to reduce on the type, not only would they have paid more in salary (80hrs/month training/transition pay), they would have paid for 100's of courses, and the 100's of more courses the reductions would have triggered, all that lost productivity, only to have to retrain/reinstate for the type at some point...

Plus the manufacturer will be paying for all this Abid record profits for them and the airline... this is a business choice that we labour should have done better on...

The 737 guys deserve better given all the uncertainty and bullshit here. ACPA shouldn't be bending at all.
---------- ADS -----------
  

a220hereicome
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:44 pm

Re: Air Canada grounds Boeing Max 8s until at least July 1

Post by a220hereicome » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:58 pm

altiplano wrote:
Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:53 pm

Plus the union made concessions to achieve that. Primarily in wet lease pay credits, scope ratios, and training rights...

Really though, the union had immense leverage here but squandered it... Had AC decided to not pay, they would have had to reduce on the type, not only would they have paid more in salary (80hrs/month training/transition pay), they would have paid for 100's of courses, and the 100's of more courses the reductions would have triggered, all that lost productivity, only to have to retrain/reinstate for the type at some point...

Plus the manufacturer will be paying for all this Abid record profits for them and the airline... this is a business choice that we labour should have done better on...

The 737 guys deserve better given all the uncertainty and bullshit here. ACPA shouldn't be bending at all.
I was under the impression that the ACPA MEC had shifted to a much more militant stance. If the airplane is down for two to three months (seems to be the general educated guess), what leverage do you think ACPA had knowing that the Company had language of 'grounding through no fault of their own' that could let them walk away without paying the MAX crews a single dollar for three months? I don't think that would have been a good idea, as they would have needed the rest of the crews to pick up the slack, read in goodwill, but do you think the MEC could have squeezed more?

TD
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “Air Canada”