Record revenues vs 4 year flat pay

Discuss topics relating to Air Canada.

Moderators: ahramin, sky's the limit, Sulako, North Shore

AvconsultantON
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: Record revenues vs 4 year flat pay

Post by AvconsultantON » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:31 am

Quit flying. Get a law degree. Work your way up the corporate ladder on Bay Street.
Never bitch about the amount that successful people make. It is there for you as well, you just have to do it
This is quite direct, but it does highlight a very realistic message of how the world works in a free-market capitalist society. I don't think it's inappropriate, I think its realistic. Ultimately, none of us became pilots to enjoy a wealthy, lavish lifestyle. Nor do people become lawyers to enjoy some lavish lifestyle of a corporate lawyer on Bay Street. We do what we do out of of passion, a wonder or some curious drive for success in the field we find ourselves interested in. It certainly takes time and effort to enjoy the perks of a career as an airline pilot and certainly a lot more time and effort to enjoy the profession of a corporate lawyer. However, I don't think thats the argument here.

When it comes to the career of an airline pilot, I think a societal shift is happening involving the type of people entering the workforce, and the evolving fields of business and technology. Business and technology fields have become the go-to for young minds entering the post secondary education age. These young minds are finding ways to become successful entrepreneurs, starting niche markets in applications, programs or software. They benefit from a free-market capitalist society, just as airline pilots do when we collect a paycheque. This paycheque we collect is usually proportional to our tenure or experience within the company we are employed with. We as pilots aren't innovating the way the airline operates. We aren't going to work everyday trying to develop programs to change the business models or refine the balance sheets. We are going to work simply to operate the equipment we are trained to operate in a safe way which is to generate revenue for the company we work for. These young minds who are becoming entrepreneurs will find a way to replace us, and it is a good objective. We as pilots cost a lot of money (thinking of some of the top-out salaries). Single pilot operations on modern airliners isn't too far off, and the payoff will be enormous for the bottom line of any airline operation. This may be a cynical prospect to some, but its a very realistic future for our career and a great many others. We aren't unique as airline pilots. We aren't special. There will always be a winner in a free-market capitalist society and there will always be a loser. Look at retail jobs, the service industry or automotive manufacturing jobs, the list goes on for jobs that are deemed "complex repetitive" like ours. Now certainly, we can be a sore loser and fall victim to this societal shift, or we can make the most of it. Live on less than we make, save money, invest in real-estate and generate multiple streams of income to sustain the lifestyle we desire. All of this is possible ONLY because we live a capitalist society.

To claim "corporate greed" is the source of all problems is ignorant. To even think that we should take a more socialist view on our society because we believe as airline pilots "aren't paid enough" is completely uneducated, misinformed and dangerous. Look at the movement of the radical left in the Canadian media, it is appalling. Capitalism allows us to use the income we get freely and however we desire. We aren't entitled to more because previous generations of airline pilots were able to live a different lifestyle. This is happening to jobs all across Canada and it isn't unique to us. Either we stay content with being a loser, or we strive to achieve our dreams as winners.
---------- ADS -----------
  

altiplano
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3801
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 2:24 pm

Re: Record revenues vs 4 year flat pay

Post by altiplano » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:47 am

Canada free market capitalist society!?

You haven't been paying attention.

Just equipment operators?

Hardly. We bear all the responsibility in a highly challenging and variable environment every day on the line. That's why we are paid.

Nice management audition though, you should copy that post and send it to Calin!
---------- ADS -----------
  

Al Borlin
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:22 am

Re: Record revenues vs 4 year flat pay

Post by Al Borlin » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:15 pm

tbaylx wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:46 pm
PostmasterGeneral wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:28 pm

Says the guy who accepted the shitty 4 year flat pay to get into AC last month...
Barking up the wrong tree there Sherlock. It’s says the guy who turned down a Jan course for that exact reason. The guy you’re referring to, AC is lucky to have despite the 4 year starting pay.
I’m not sure I’m understanding this correctly. Are you suggesting that because you turned down down an AC course 6 months ago just to crawl back and take the job anyway that that allows you any kind of self-righteous moral high ground? Really sticking it to the big Corp! In case you were wondering: they didn’t notice. They didn’t cancel any flights or suffer any hardship in that time period. What they did do, however, is hire 300 other pilots who now sit above you in seniority.

AC might be lucky to have those other 300 pilots, but I think in your case it’s the other way around: You are lucky to work for a company that previously initiated a hiring ban for selfish individuals who decided to undermine westjet pilot’s scope and bargaining capital.

But like I said, I might have misunderstood.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Warden
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:08 pm

Re: Record revenues vs 4 year flat pay

Post by Warden » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:49 pm

Al Borlin wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:15 pm
tbaylx wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:46 pm
PostmasterGeneral wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:28 pm

Says the guy who accepted the shitty 4 year flat pay to get into AC last month...
Barking up the wrong tree there Sherlock. It’s says the guy who turned down a Jan course for that exact reason. The guy you’re referring to, AC is lucky to have despite the 4 year starting pay.
I’m not sure I’m understanding this correctly. Are you suggesting that because you turned down down an AC course 6 months ago just to crawl back and take the job anyway that that allows you any kind of self-righteous moral high ground? Really sticking it to the big Corp! In case you were wondering: they didn’t notice. They didn’t cancel any flights or suffer any hardship in that time period. What they did do, however, is hire 300 other pilots who now sit above you in seniority.

AC might be lucky to have those other 300 pilots, but I think in your case it’s the other way around: You are lucky to work for a company that previously initiated a hiring ban for selfish individuals who decided to undermine westjet pilot’s scope and bargaining capital.

But like I said, I might have misunderstood.
He's not at AC. He's at Flair still. His name is not on the seniority list, training schedule or any new hire bio. There was another fella who had eerily similar employment history as him which I mistook as him.
---------- ADS -----------
  

Warden
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:08 pm

Re: Record revenues vs 4 year flat pay

Post by Warden » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:52 pm

:smt078
AvconsultantON wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:31 am
Quit flying. Get a law degree. Work your way up the corporate ladder on Bay Street.
Never bitch about the amount that successful people make. It is there for you as well, you just have to do it
This is quite direct, but it does highlight a very realistic message of how the world works in a free-market capitalist society. I don't think it's inappropriate, I think its realistic. Ultimately, none of us became pilots to enjoy a wealthy, lavish lifestyle. Nor do people become lawyers to enjoy some lavish lifestyle of a corporate lawyer on Bay Street. We do what we do out of of passion, a wonder or some curious drive for success in the field we find ourselves interested in. It certainly takes time and effort to enjoy the perks of a career as an airline pilot and certainly a lot more time and effort to enjoy the profession of a corporate lawyer. However, I don't think thats the argument here.

When it comes to the career of an airline pilot, I think a societal shift is happening involving the type of people entering the workforce, and the evolving fields of business and technology. Business and technology fields have become the go-to for young minds entering the post secondary education age. These young minds are finding ways to become successful entrepreneurs, starting niche markets in applications, programs or software. They benefit from a free-market capitalist society, just as airline pilots do when we collect a paycheque. This paycheque we collect is usually proportional to our tenure or experience within the company we are employed with. We as pilots aren't innovating the way the airline operates. We aren't going to work everyday trying to develop programs to change the business models or refine the balance sheets. We are going to work simply to operate the equipment we are trained to operate in a safe way which is to generate revenue for the company we work for. These young minds who are becoming entrepreneurs will find a way to replace us, and it is a good objective. We as pilots cost a lot of money (thinking of some of the top-out salaries). Single pilot operations on modern airliners isn't too far off, and the payoff will be enormous for the bottom line of any airline operation. This may be a cynical prospect to some, but its a very realistic future for our career and a great many others. We aren't unique as airline pilots. We aren't special. There will always be a winner in a free-market capitalist society and there will always be a loser. Look at retail jobs, the service industry or automotive manufacturing jobs, the list goes on for jobs that are deemed "complex repetitive" like ours. Now certainly, we can be a sore loser and fall victim to this societal shift, or we can make the most of it. Live on less than we make, save money, invest in real-estate and generate multiple streams of income to sustain the lifestyle we desire. All of this is possible ONLY because we live a capitalist society.

To claim "corporate greed" is the source of all problems is ignorant. To even think that we should take a more socialist view on our society because we believe as airline pilots "aren't paid enough" is completely uneducated, misinformed and dangerous. Look at the movement of the radical left in the Canadian media, it is appalling. Capitalism allows us to use the income we get freely and however we desire. We aren't entitled to more because previous generations of airline pilots were able to live a different lifestyle. This is happening to jobs all across Canada and it isn't unique to us. Either we stay content with being a loser, or we strive to achieve our dreams as winners.
---------- ADS -----------
  

co-joe
Rank 11
Rank 11
Posts: 3516
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:33 am
Location: YYC 230 degree radial at about 10 DME

Re: Record revenues vs 4 year flat pay

Post by co-joe » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:03 pm

telex wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:09 pm
Boreas wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:55 pm
What is at play here goes beyond AC, beyond aviation.

We're marching into neo-feudalism at full speed!

Its pretty much a done deal when you have well indoctrinated peasants telling other peasants to Get over it, go back to you plow somewhere. :rolleyes:
The CEO gets a raise after record revenue and the 777 FOs do not get a raise. Do I understand correctly that new hire 777 FOs understood what flat pay is and they do not get a raise when the CEO gets a raise?

Is this the textbook definition of your neo-feudalism?
But you could also say the the CEO knew the wage when he took the job, and if he didn't like the wage then he should have taken a job elsewhere. :lol:
---------- ADS -----------
  

mixturerich
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 195
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:04 pm

Re: Record revenues vs 4 year flat pay

Post by mixturerich » Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:22 pm

It’d be nice if every employee at every company in the world got a raise when revenue is high but that’s obviously not how the world works. You’re a dummy if you think otherwise.
---------- ADS -----------
  

plhought
Rank 6
Rank 6
Posts: 484
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:02 am
Location: Calgary

Re: Record revenues vs 4 year flat pay

Post by plhought » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:56 am

mixturerich wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:22 pm
It’d be nice if every employee at every company in the world got a raise when revenue is high but that’s obviously not how the world works. You’re a dummy if you think otherwise.
https://onemileatatime.com/delta-employees-pay-raise/
---------- ADS -----------
  

vermont
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 102
Joined: Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:49 pm

Re: Record revenues vs 4 year flat pay

Post by vermont » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:06 am

plhought wrote:
Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:56 am
mixturerich wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 8:22 pm
It’d be nice if every employee at every company in the world got a raise when revenue is high but that’s obviously not how the world works. You’re a dummy if you think otherwise.
https://onemileatatime.com/delta-employees-pay-raise/
Not possible in Canada /s
---------- ADS -----------
  

garfield
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 196
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:35 pm

Re: Record revenues vs 4 year flat pay

Post by garfield » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:45 pm

They could lower the flat pay to 15K per year, give 400$ per month to rent a bed in YYZ area and still fill all their seats,

Wanna bet?
---------- ADS -----------
  

Post Reply

Return to “Air Canada”