What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

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Daniel Cooper
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What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by Daniel Cooper »

I'm wondering where everybody thinks the A220's will be based and what routes they will be utilized on.
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teacher
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by teacher »

https://canadianaviationnews.wordpress. ... 20-routes/

Long thinner routes, current Embraer flying and routes currently served by the A319. I read YVR-BOS and YHZ-YVR among others. It flies 1000nm further than the E190 so the possibilities are very broad.

As for bases none have been officially announced. YYZ was mentioned but the last few company musings have been noncommittal. YYZ would make sense as the E190s are retired however E190s were based in YVR and YUL in the past. Also the 737 max issues may change that timeline. The other issue with YYZ is gate availability. There just aren't enough gates to really expand that much from what I've heard. I've heard for years that the GTAA ran out of cash to continue expanding T1. However it looks like they found some money to add bridges to the U.S. regional side where Jazz and GGN park. If they do both sides that should add a few. Not sure if you could fit an E175 or A220 there. We'll see.
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Dry Guy
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by Dry Guy »

Will Air Canada's 220's be ETOPS certified? What about YVR to Hawaii? Is there a reason the MAX is a better choice for those routes?
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nightbird
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by nightbird »

220s won’t be ETOPS, they said the airplane is too small for any overseas flying
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Gino Under
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by Gino Under »

You mean like when “they said” 737s won’t do any overseas flying because they’re to small or when “they said” the 757 won’t do any overseas flying because it’s a narrow body with not enough pax capacity? Or, when “they said” twin engined jets will never fly trans Atlantic routes? I guess it depends how far back in history your opinion goes.
Capacity + Capability + Frequency + Profit margin = Decision
I don’t think aircraft size or range are an issue for ETOPS anywhere for the C series. As a revenue generating asset, it is simply a tool for the route planners limited by their visionary creativity and ingenuity.
Wisdom rarely prevents us from using any asset to its fullest capabilities. Does it?

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Chris M
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by Chris M »

nightbird wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:14 pm
220s won’t be ETOPS, they said the airplane is too small for any overseas flying
TC gave it 180-min ETOPS in January. It's been tested for New York-London, so overseas routes should be a very solid possibility.

https://www.aviationtoday.com/2019/01/1 ... own-delay/
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nick29
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by nick29 »

Air Canada is not buying the ETOPS version of the A220.
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goingnowherefast
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by goingnowherefast »

Can ETOPS capability be added afterwards? Maybe no plan for ETOPS routes in the mid-term so not worth the cost. Markets change, opportunities open, perhaps it will be desired in 10 years?
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by Oxi »

what would a A220 need to become ETOPS compliant?
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delta1
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by delta1 »

Oxi wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:07 pm
what would a A220 need to become ETOPS compliant?


Life rafts I believe
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yycflyguy
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by yycflyguy »

delta1 wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:33 pm
Oxi wrote:
Mon Apr 29, 2019 8:07 pm
what would a A220 need to become ETOPS compliant?


Life rafts I believe
Also
  • SATCOM voice link, SATCOM data link, HF data link
  • each flight shall have continuous fire suppression capability for a period equivalent to the maxi- mum planned diversion time plus an additional 15 min to cover approach and landing at the alternate airport.
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by MarkyMark90 »

I could have seen the 220 do those routes Halifax-London or Vancouver-Hawaii...
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by fish4life »

MarkyMark90 wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:40 pm
I could have seen the 220 do those routes Halifax-London or Vancouver-Hawaii...
They already bought Max’s for that, although they aren’t doing much right now
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by Daniel Cooper »

Are the life rafts easily retrofitable or is it something built into the airframe?
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by Gino Under »

The A220 is 180 minutes ETOPS out of the box. Conversation over.
If AC chooses NOT to use ETOPS capability they won’t seek Transport Canada “approval”. That’s a whole other conversation.
No ETOPS routes today. But, tomorrow is another day.
The airline industry has taught us to never say never. Some among us just haven’t caught onto that fact.
Frankly, I don’t believe AC has the insight or vision to use this aeroplane to maximize its potential.
Their pilot union will see to that.
It’s very difficult to open closed minds.

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tailgunner
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by tailgunner »

Gino,
How would ACPA be detrimental to the way AC uses the 220?
Seems like a pretty shallow statement. If you are referring to the fact that ACPA May hold AC to the terms of the contact that AC wrote and agreed to, then sure, I guess, blame ACPA..😏
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by altiplano »

AC can put whichever aircraft they want on whichever route they want.

ACPA doesn't have any say on that.
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by Daniel Cooper »

Gino Under wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 4:54 pm
The A220 is 180 minutes ETOPS out of the box. Conversation over.
According to this Airbus web page it's an option.
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-r ... ility.html
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teacher
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by teacher »

Rumours that the 220 may go to YUL first. Who knows, at this rate the YYZ 190s may not retire as planned in spring of 2020 if the max grounding drags on.....
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Lt. Daniel Kaffee
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by Lt. Daniel Kaffee »

Can a non-ETOPS A220 be converted into a ETOPS A220 after leaving the factory?

Of course. It's only money. The operator would have to obtain a Service Bulletin from Airbus and pay the money. Depending upon how the basic airframe is wired/plumbed, the update could be easy and quick or complicated and long.

Several issues as already noted include life rafts, long range communication systems, fire suppression systems etc would have to fitted....definitely not cheap. If there were a remote possibility of AC operating them ETOPS, I suspect they would have them come out of the factory so equipped.
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Gino Under
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by Gino Under »

Some ideas...
Here are some routes for an ETOPS A220

CYYZ-LPLA, 2360 nm
4 Hr. 25 minutes FL350 at M0.78, no wind

CYYJ - PHNL, 2325 nm
5 Hr. 03 minutes, FL350 at M0.80, no wind

CYHZ - TXKF, 753 nm
1 Hr.. 45 minutes, FL350 at M0.80, no wind

CYHZ - TBPB, 2208 nm
4 Hr. 55 minutes, FL350 at M0.80, no wind

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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by TheStig »

Interesting potential routes. Which of those is the union stopping the airline from operating?

Maintaining ETOPs qualifications on a relatively large fleet of aircraft that primarily does domestic operations is difficult. Ordering an entire fleet of ETOP capable aircraft when only a few are required is expensive, conversely having only a few aircraft capable of operating certain routes becomes problematic when IROPs occur, it also drags down average daily fleet utilization when specific aircraft have to be designated to fly certain sectors.

AC has ordered 45 A220's to replace 25 E190's and 20 A319's that are currently performing domestic operations, I would think that if AC is satisfied with the aircraft it will exercise its options.
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by Gino Under »

As Canada’s premier airline, Air Canada has chosen an amazing aircraft. A Canadian aircraft with the latest cockpit automation and well thought out cockpit design, designed by instructor pilots and line pilots whose backgrounds include both Airbus and Boeing among other types. I have every confidence AC pilots will be pleasantly surprised by it and enjoy flying it as all operators so far have so eloquently expressed.
It would be in ACs interest to use this aircraft to its fullest operational capability.
This notion doesn’t necessarily mean they will. I get that.
Operating it simply as a 190 or 319 replacement isn’t very encouraging as far as utilization goes.

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Daniel Cooper
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by Daniel Cooper »

How is the reliability of these aircraft? It seems like a lot of stuff Bombardier builds has issues.
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Re: What bases and routes do you think the A220 will have?

Post by L39Guy »

Daniel Cooper wrote:
Mon May 06, 2019 6:25 pm
How is the reliability of these aircraft? It seems like a lot of stuff Bombardier builds has issues.
If you google Air Baltic you’ll find that they are very happy with its dispatch reliability. Also, Air Baltic has many excellent YouTube videos about the aircraft.
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