AC offer AT $13 per share

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C-GGGQ
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by C-GGGQ »

As someone with no skin in the game (other than picking airlines to apply to in 2-3 years time) I would put forward this. People are already bickering about botl or doh, but as some has pointed out the entire contract will be negotiated. Why not ditch seniority? Negotiate that. Yeah am I delusional? probably, do I know how to accomplish this? Nope. However, it has been said time and again seniority just shackles us to companies vs say nurses where seniority/ experience is industry wide not employer specific. Just a pipe dream I know, but if you're going back to the table anyway dream big. Lead the industry. Base it off log hours or something.

My 2¢
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by fruitloops »

What's everyone's guess on the most likely direction or outcome of this merger if successful regarding the brand of AT.... keep the AT brand/image and just own/operate..... or ditch the Brand merge...replace by just AC..... or create new internal vacation brand like using AC Vacations .... or Rouge Vacations ? My guess is just replace w AC centralize everything... just wondering about other possibilities
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by thesimplelife »

fruitloops wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 4:22 pm What's everyone's guess on the most likely direction or outcome of this merger if successful regarding the brand of AT.... keep the AT brand/image and just own/operate..... or ditch the Brand merge...replace by just AC..... or create new internal vacation brand like using AC Vacations .... or Rouge Vacations ? My guess is just replace w AC centralize everything... just wondering about other possibilities

I can see them dropping the Rouge brand and kee Air Transat. Lots of people I know hate when they buy a ticket on Air Canada and get "Rouged"... Many don't even understand the difference. Air Transat has pretty strong branding.

If it were my choice and it's not, I'd consider making AT the spin off vacation brand/LCC and only have Air Canada mainline as the other. Make it clear online that you are buying a ticket on Air Canada or Transat.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Daniel Cooper »

Unfortunately executives are not in touch with reality and probably think people love Rouge.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by fruitloops »

If the wording in this message means anything Air Transat could remain its own brand/operation for the foreseeable future at least and no merge short term.

1. By connecting Transat to our own network
2. ....adding Transat services to our network would create new North American market opportunities

....................................
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Last edited by fruitloops on Sat May 18, 2019 9:43 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Jettime3 »

TS is in financial trouble and they already announced they were looking for buyers prior to Onyx buying WJ. It was in the media. TS stock raised the day they announced the company was on the market . But it doesn't mean they can sustain the losses if they did not secure themselves. AC needs their aircraft and likely their mutual routes shared with Rouge and the European ones Rouge is not a leader in. AC did them a favour; TS could have been the next charter to see a demise . I do not view it as a merger . It's a buyout. There are some old timers at TS who came from other now defunct airlines. Those guys have the hours . Won't be pretty if they have to give up their years and high flying hours to some low timer who came from a Regional recently . I'm AC now and I know there will be TS pilots who have been flying since I was a little guy. My respect to them but I still think this is going to go CIRB . I see both sides of the equasion. Word in the flight deck is they should be BOTL . But maybe that will not need to happen if AC keeps TS separate. My wife and me actually prefer TS when we fly , they have a distinct level and it's better than Rouge , comfortable, entertainment, more professional onboard crews and better aircraft . Maybe AC should look at that , make Rouge the LCC and put TS in its own league of distinction.
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thesimplelife
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by thesimplelife »

fruitloops wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 6:25 pm If the wording in this message means anything Air Transat could remain its own brand/operation for the foreseeable future at least and no merge short term.

1. By connecting Transat to our own network
2. ....adding Transat services to our network would create new North American market opportunities

....................................


If that's the plan and ACPA let's it happen, all the more reason to finally kick them to the curb.
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Last edited by thesimplelife on Sat May 18, 2019 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Victory »

fruitloops wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 6:25 pm i posted this in the DOH merge topic but deserves to be here too

-------

If the wording in Calin's message means anything Air Transat could remain its own brand/operation for the foreseeable future at least and no merge short term.

1. By connecting Transat to our own network
2. ....adding Transat services to our network would create new North American market opportunities to cities like Seattle, San Diego, Charlotte and Nashville, and allow added frequencies to major U.S. and Canadian cites

....................................

By adding incremental revenues of $3 billion and a world-leading international tourism company, this purchase will accelerate our already ambitious growth plan. A transformative new relationship with Transat is consistent with everything we have been saying and doing over the last decade and supports the same four priorities that have brought us so far in becoming sustainably profitable and a true global champion.

The most obvious of those is International Growth. By connecting Transat to our own network, we would be strengthening service to cities like Basel, Malagua, Nantes, Toulouse, Porto and Prague. Additionally, adding Transat services to our network would create new North American market opportunities to cities like Seattle, San Diego, Charlotte and Nashville, and allow added frequencies to major U.S. and Canadian cites.

Our priority around Customer Engagement would also be supported, as customers would greatly benefit from an enhanced global network that offers more travel options, improved flight schedules, new products and services, new route opportunities, and access to value-added benefits such as loyalty programs and frequent flyer benefits, particularly in light of our recent acquisition of Aeroplan. Transat also brings a proven track record in customer service excellence.

This “made in Quebec” solution would strengthen our Montreal hub as a top international connection point. All of that, in turn, supports Revenue Generation – another of our priorities.
By posting internal memos all over the internet you are insuring that you and your co-workers are told nothing in the future.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by termerair »

Jettime3 wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 9:34 pm TS is in financial trouble and they already announced they were looking for buyers prior to Onyx buying WJ. It was in the media. TS stock raised the day they announced the company was on the market . But it doesn't mean they can sustain the losses if they did not secure themselves. AC needs their aircraft and likely their mutual routes shared with Rouge and the European ones Rouge is not a leader in. AC did them a favour; TS could have been the next charter to see a demise . I do not view it as a merger . It's a buyout. There are some old timers at TS who came from other now defunct airlines. Those guys have the hours . Won't be pretty if they have to give up their years and high flying hours to some low timer who came from a Regional recently . I'm AC now and I know there will be TS pilots who have been flying since I was a little guy. My respect to them but I still think this is going to go CIRB . I see both sides of the equasion. Word in the flight deck is they should be BOTL . But maybe that will not need to happen if AC keeps TS separate. My wife and me actually prefer TS when we fly , they have a distinct level and it's better than Rouge , comfortable, entertainment, more professional onboard crews and better aircraft . Maybe AC should look at that , make Rouge the LCC and put TS in its own league of distinction.
I, personally, wouldn't call it financial trouble when you're holding 620 millions in cash at the bank with zero debt... i agree TS was not generating surpluses on a regular basis but you have to understand that TS was in the middle of a strategic plan that was going to improve its profitability within 2 years.

And NO, the Transat group did not look for a buyer. They are/were nowhere near closing their doors. They were approached by different players, one of them being AC. As a public company traded on the stock market they had to disclose that information. For some reasons we will probably not know right away, AC is on its way to win the game and i am quite sure the share price was not the only argument.

In my opinion, it is not a coincidence those 2 major announcements (ONEX buying WJ and AC buying TS) took place a few days apart. I am pretty sure AC felt the danger to see TS go with WJ to develop the international market. AC, with the purchase of TS, is protecting itself on top of grabbing a handful of cash. Smart move from an investor point of view. To say that AC has saved Transat from a foreseeable closure is a bit pretentious imho. On the other hand, i believe TS liked very much the idea of the HQ remaining in YUL (lots of politics in the background i am sure...). I see it as an arranged marriage where both companies have something to gain.

I really really really hope the 2 pilot groups will work together in a smart way if a merger has to happen. Our 2 pilot groups deserve better than fighting over their ego. For most TS pilots, the blue star is their career first choice, not the left over option from an AC PFO letter in their young age. Some have even turned down AC a couple of times when at Air Transat. Both parties have gains to be made if we all remain somehow reasonable and respectful of each other.

But first, let's wait for that transaction to go through all the many steps it has to pass...!

And maybe then we will see each other in the briefing room in a few years! Cheers!
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Daniel Cooper »

They bought $620 million in cash for $520 million plus an airline for free? Something doesn't add up there.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by FL320 »

They bought $620 million in cash for $520 million plus an airline for free? Something doesn't add up there
I too wonder where are those 600M$. My guess is that Eustache bought a nice yacht for himself and another bigger one for his new friend CR. They are both having a good time while we -both pilot groups- are talking about the peanuts we might gain or loose. :rolleyes:
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Last edited by FL320 on Sat May 18, 2019 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Old fella »

termerair wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 5:48 am
Jettime3 wrote: Fri May 17, 2019 9:34 pm TS is in financial trouble and they already announced they were looking for buyers prior to Onyx buying WJ. It was in the media. TS stock raised the day they announced the company was on the market . But it doesn't mean they can sustain the losses if they did not secure themselves. AC needs their aircraft and likely their mutual routes shared with Rouge and the European ones Rouge is not a leader in. AC did them a favour; TS could have been the next charter to see a demise . I do not view it as a merger . It's a buyout. There are some old timers at TS who came from other now defunct airlines. Those guys have the hours . Won't be pretty if they have to give up their years and high flying hours to some low timer who came from a Regional recently . I'm AC now and I know there will be TS pilots who have been flying since I was a little guy. My respect to them but I still think this is going to go CIRB . I see both sides of the equasion. Word in the flight deck is they should be BOTL . But maybe that will not need to happen if AC keeps TS separate. My wife and me actually prefer TS when we fly , they have a distinct level and it's better than Rouge , comfortable, entertainment, more professional onboard crews and better aircraft . Maybe AC should look at that , make Rouge the LCC and put TS in its own league of distinction.
I, personally, wouldn't call it financial trouble when you're holding 620 millions in cash at the bank with zero debt... i agree TS was not generating surpluses on a regular basis but you have to understand that TS was in the middle of a strategic plan that was going to improve its profitability within 2 years.

And NO, the Transat group did not look for a buyer. They are/were nowhere near closing their doors. They were approached by different players, one of them being AC. As a public company traded on the stock market they had to disclose that information. For some reasons we will probably not know right away, AC is on its way to win the game and i am quite sure the share price was not the only argument.

In my opinion, it is not a coincidence those 2 major announcements (ONEX buying WJ and AC buying TS) took place a few days apart. I am pretty sure AC felt the danger to see TS go with WJ to develop the international market. AC, with the purchase of TS, is protecting itself on top of grabbing a handful of cash. Smart move from an investor point of view. To say that AC has saved Transat from a foreseeable closure is a bit pretentious imho. On the other hand, i believe TS liked very much the idea of the HQ remaining in YUL (lots of politics in the background i am sure...). I see it as an arranged marriage where both companies have something to gain.

I really really really hope the 2 pilot groups will work together in a smart way if a merger has to happen. Our 2 pilot groups deserve better than fighting over their ego. For most TS pilots, the blue star is their career first choice, not the left over option from an AC PFO letter in their young age. Some have even turned down AC a couple of times when at Air Transat. Both parties have gains to be made if we all remain somehow reasonable and respectful of each other.

But first, let's wait for that transaction to go through all the many steps it has to pass...!

And maybe then we will see each other in the briefing room in a few years! Cheers!
What I have been hearing over the few years from the traveller chattering class is AT offers a very good value added product and quality service. Rouge on the other hand has generated some less than stellar views from the same chatty crowd that we are familiar with.Perhaps those frequent flyer types would be disappointed if AT changed colours to Rouge, who knows.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by islandguy »

Indeed, a happy merger is what EVERYONE should be hoping for—none of this 'I want mine AND I don't want you to get yours' nonsense. Just think of it this way—whoever comes out on top is going to have to fly with whoever comes out on the bottom for the rest of their career. Ask the old guard Air Canada and Canadian pilots how well it worked when animosity ruled in the flight planning room.

That said, I don't honestly know if there's a realistic way to achieve everyone being happy—so perhaps 'equally unhappy' is the best case scenario :S
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by fruitloops »

Transat Balance sheet
Transat Balance sheet
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by fruitloops »

balance sheet part 2
balance sheet part 2
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by rudder »

I think a bigger hurdle than the competition bureau will be the ACPA scope language.

At a minimum, if acquired airTransat will meet the definition of an ‘affiliate’. Therefore, pilot positions may only be occupied by pilots who’s names appear on the AC pilot seniority list. Therefore seniority integration must occur.

Operationally, there are also significant issues. Paint job. Schedule. Fleet. Routes. All corporate decisions. However, the ability to hold multiple AOC’s appears restricted. Currently just AC and Rouge. Not clear that additional AOC’s are permitted and unlikely that ACPA will allow the purchase as a back door to expand Rouge beyond current contractual fleet limits and accordingly expand the volume of the AC pilot population subject to the downgraded WAWCON.

Should be interesting to watch this unfold.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by thesimplelife »

islandguy wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 7:54 am Indeed, a happy merger is what EVERYONE should be hoping for—none of this 'I want mine AND I don't want you to get yours' nonsense. Just think of it this way—whoever comes out on top is going to have to fly with whoever comes out on the bottom for the rest of their career. Ask the old guard Air Canada and Canadian pilots how well it worked when animosity ruled in the flight planning room.

That said, I don't honestly know if there's a realistic way to achieve everyone being happy—so perhaps 'equally unhappy' is the best case scenario :S
The best contract is usually when all parties walk away a little unhappy.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by thesimplelife »

rudder wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 9:17 am I think a bigger hurdle than the competition bureau will be the ACPA scope language.

At a minimum, if acquired airTransat will meet the definition of an ‘affiliate’. Therefore, pilot positions may only be occupied by pilots who’s names appear on the AC pilot seniority list. Therefore seniority integration must occur.

Operationally, there are also significant issues. Paint job. Schedule. Fleet. Routes. All corporate decisions. However, the ability to hold multiple AOC’s appears restricted. Currently just AC and Rouge. Not clear that additional AOC’s are permitted and unlikely that ACPA will allow the purchase as a back door to expand Rouge beyond current contractual fleet limits and accordingly expand the volume of the AC pilot population subject to the downgraded WAWCON.

Should be interesting to watch this unfold.
I hope you are right.........................
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by florch »

DOH won't happen.
BOTL won't happen.
Relative seniority. You'll hold your approximate percentile.

Read your history. CIRB will decide for you if you can't and the result will be Relative Seniority.

That's what happened with AC/CA and also with C3/Royal/Canjet.

No dog in the race, but I would like to see expectations in line with what will happen so hopefully there isn't 20 years of animosity to come.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by thesimplelife »

florch wrote: Sat May 18, 2019 1:11 pm DOH won't happen.
BOTL won't happen.
Relative seniority. You'll hold your approximate percentile.

Read your history. CIRB will decide for you if you can't and the result will be Relative Seniority.

That's what happened with AC/CA and also with C3/Royal/Canjet.

No dog in the race, but I would like to see expectations in line with what will happen so hopefully there isn't 20 years of animosity to come.
Relative seniority works when you're merging two groups of similar size, not with a 3000+ group with 600. I don't see it happening.
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