AC offer AT $13 per share

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av8ts
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by av8ts » Sun May 19, 2019 8:11 am

Dry Guy wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 5:43 am
av8ts wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 4:32 am

Really BOTL. Comfort in knowing pay won’t be hurt??? There’s way more to life than pay. Vacation schedule, monthly schedule are just 2 I can think of that that would be horrible going from a senior Capt go a BOTL FO
Their airplane got sold.
No it didn’t. AC had to buy Transat before Onex did and merged it with WJ. They were a threat to AC and the pilots should be treated as equals
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Fanblade
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Fanblade » Sun May 19, 2019 8:29 am

Some History.

During the AC/CDN merger

The economic state of CDN didn’t matter to the arbitrator. They were bought as a going concern. It was irrelevant.

The pay differences between AC and CDN did not matter to the arbitrator. It was irrelevant.

The rationalizations and justifications posted here are meaningless. You won’t be able to discount the other side based on something the arbitrator views as irrelevant.

The arbitrator will not look at career progression as we know it. He won’t even clearly understand it. The arbitrator won’t even remotely understand why one group thinks they are more deserving than the other. They will view you as equals.

It will never come from an arbitrator. If you stick to your guns on irrelevant points to justify your position you guarantee arbitration.
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Last edited by Fanblade on Sun May 19, 2019 8:50 am, edited 6 times in total.

ahramin
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by ahramin » Sun May 19, 2019 8:31 am

Dry Guy wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 5:43 am
av8ts wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 4:32 am

Really BOTL. Comfort in knowing pay won’t be hurt??? There’s way more to life than pay. Vacation schedule, monthly schedule are just 2 I can think of that that would be horrible going from a senior Capt go a BOTL FO
Their airplane got sold.
Or, thinking of it another way, their airplane got bought.
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Gilles Hudicourt
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Gilles Hudicourt » Sun May 19, 2019 9:43 am

John1234 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:46 pm
Transat has been hiring 1000hr instructors, congratulations on winning the lotto
Really ? Sounds like the person living in Northern Quebec telling me that the Montreal neighbourhood where I live is full of burka clad women.... I have yet to see one....
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by FL-280 » Sun May 19, 2019 9:52 am

Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 9:43 am
John1234 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:46 pm
Transat has been hiring 1000hr instructors, congratulations on winning the lotto
Really ? Sounds like the person living in Northern Quebec telling me that the Montreal neighbourhood where I live is full of burka clad women.... I have yet to see one....
Maybe a little far fetched, but 1 500 TT with a bit of Turbine time yes. Some pilots left the AC express brand to go to Transat, the pilots who sticked it out in the regional are going to get shafted now. My point is, Transat hire's with less experience than AC, that is for sure. I doubt doh will go through, but if it does these pilots have just won the lotto.
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fruitloops
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by fruitloops » Sun May 19, 2019 10:36 am

So many ways to slice it but DOH appears to be the fairest solution with some fences as others have mentioned before.

What could be some of the 'fences' that could result with a merge?

Maybe its DOH but unable to bid outside of AT equipment for AT pilots and visa versa for AC pilots the first two years, so that there is a period where each groups positions/equipment is protected and potential progression is not affected by cross bidders. Could something of this nature happen?

Either way its a good move to AC's and AT's future so I will welcome AT pilots if/when the deal gets completed.

It appears that year 1,2,3 and 4 AT pilots make more than AC flat pay. Definitely going to be some renegotiation of agreements coming.

Anyone have an updated AT pay scale?

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/air ... ir_transat

4 86000 86000
3 80000 80000
2 74000 74000
1 68000 68000

http://negotech.labour.gc.ca/eng/agreem ... 25005a.pdf
May 1, 2013 to April 30, 2014
Years of service Hourly rate Annual
salary
Lump
amount Total Years of
service Hourly rate Annual
salary

2014 numbers
Entry 1 $52.08...... $50,000
Entry 2 $57.29 ......$55,000
0-1 $73.84..... $70,885
1-2 $80.35 .....$77,140
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Last edited by fruitloops on Sun May 19, 2019 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Jean-Pierre
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Jean-Pierre » Sun May 19, 2019 10:41 am

What about the fact that AC has a file on the vast majority of AT pilot because they applied there and were not chosen to be hired. These pilot that were deem not acceptable at the time are suddenly going to be given no interview job at AC, something not even AC Express get?
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by TFTMB heavy » Sun May 19, 2019 10:58 am

fruitloops wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 10:36 am
So many ways to slice it but DOH appears to be the fairest solution with some fences as others have mentioned before.

What could be some of the 'fences' that could result with a merge?

Maybe its DOH but unable to bid outside of AT equipment for AT pilots and visa versa for AC pilots the first two years, so that there is a period where each groups positions/equipment is protected and potential progression is not affected by cross bidders. Could something of this nature happen?

Either way its a good move to AC's and AT's future so I will welcome AT pilots if/when the deal gets completed.

It appears that year 1,2,3 and 4 AT pilots make more than AC flat pay. Definitely going to be some renegotiation of agreements coming.

Anyone have an updated AT pay scale?

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/air ... ir_transat

4 86000 86000
3 80000 80000
2 74000 74000
1 68000 68000

http://negotech.labour.gc.ca/eng/agreem ... 25005a.pdf
May 1, 2013 to April 30, 2014
Years of service Hourly rate Annual
salary
Lump
amount Total Years of
service Hourly rate Annual
salary

2014 numbers
Entry 1 $52.08...... $50,000
Entry 2 $57.29 ......$55,000
0-1 $73.84..... $70,885
1-2 $80.35 .....$77,140
Wide Body FO as of May 1 2019:

Annual Salary
$55,760
$69,535
$82,610
$89,898

Narrow Body FO as of May 1 2019:

Annual Salary

$55,760
$69,535
$76,483
$83,443
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by TFTMB heavy » Sun May 19, 2019 11:01 am

Jean-Pierre wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 10:41 am
What about the fact that AC has a file on the vast majority of AT pilot because they applied there and were not chosen to be hired. These pilot that were deem not acceptable at the time are suddenly going to be given no interview job at AC, something not even AC Express get?
Why does it matter? People make decisions and have to live with them. Nobody asked for this at TS or at AC but we have to live with it. The deck gets re-shuffled and you keep playing your cards.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by thesimplelife » Sun May 19, 2019 12:01 pm

Jean-Pierre wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 10:41 am
What about the fact that AC has a file on the vast majority of AT pilot because they applied there and were not chosen to be hired. These pilot that were deem not acceptable at the time are suddenly going to be given no interview job at AC, something not even AC Express get?
Not to mention the dozens of AC Express pilots who left Jazz for AT after 6 months on the job and 1500 hours...
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by TSAM » Sun May 19, 2019 1:38 pm

I don't know of any 1500 hr hires at TS. Even if there were, you should know AC has hired 1500 hr pilots from Jazz, GGN and SR, including at least 1 or 2 that were told once they have their ATPL they'll get the next spot (PML 1.0). Even on 2.0 there were many in the 1500-2000 hr range. If you chose to stick it out at Jazz, thats your choice. Others saw an opportunity elsewhere and are quite happy to be and stay at Transat. Again this merger isn't our choice. We were not selling, we were approached to be bought. Anything can be had for the right price. And for $13/share atm, it appears to buy 30 some tails, a number of routes, gates, positions, market share, a great brand and very experienced flight crews and operations.

On a side note, if anyone thinks the merger is wrong, because it may affect you (doubtful), please let your management and shareholders know why it's a bad transaction not to have growth, stability and increased profits, because it may affect your upgrade time or seniority (again, doubtful). I'm sure many here at TS (myself included) will be content for going at it our own or with another buyer.
Jean-Pierre wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 10:41 am
What about the fact that AC has a file on the vast majority of AT pilot because they applied there and were not chosen to be hired. These pilot that were deem not acceptable at the time are suddenly going to be given no interview job at AC, something not even AC Express get?
If AC buys out the rest of Jazz then I'm sure Jazz can get the same or better deal.
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Last edited by TSAM on Sun May 19, 2019 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thesimplelife
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by thesimplelife » Sun May 19, 2019 1:43 pm

TSAM wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 1:38 pm
I don't know of any 1500 hr hires at TS. Even if there were, you should know AC has hired 1500 hr pilots from Jazz, GGN and SR, including at least 1 or 2 that were told once they have their ATPL they'll get the next spot (PML 1.0). Even on 2.0 there were many in the 1500-2000 hr range. If you chose to stick it out at Jazz, thats your choice. Others saw an opportunity elsewhere and are quite happy to be and stay at Transat. Again this merger isn't our choice. We were not selling, we were approached to be bought. Anything can be had for the right price. And for $13/share atm, it appears to buy 30 some tails, a number of routes, gates, positions, a great brand and very experienced flight crews and operations.

On a side note, if anyone thinks the merger is wrong, because it may affect you (doubtful), please let your management and shareholders know why it's a bad transaction not to have growth, stability and increased profits, because it may affect your upgrade time or seniority (again, doubtful). I'm sure many here at TS (myself included) will be content for going at it our own or with another buyer.
Jean-Pierre wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 10:41 am
What about the fact that AC has a file on the vast majority of AT pilot because they applied there and were not chosen to be hired. These pilot that were deem not acceptable at the time are suddenly going to be given no interview job at AC, something not even AC Express get?
If AC buys out the rest of Jazz then I'm sure Jazz can get the same or better deal.
I know three who left Jazz with under approx 2000 hours and less than a year with the company, one less than 6.

Additionally, I was under the impression that AT was looking for buyers not the other way around.

Lastly, the last time AC bought what is now Jazz the pilots got @#$! all. I'm surprised you didn't know that. So to say Jazz would get the same (DOH) is rediculous. The ALPA merger policy is one of the biggest hang ups right now that ACPA has with going back to ALPA. They have made it clear no Jazz pilot will receive DOH.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by TSAM » Sun May 19, 2019 2:02 pm

thesimplelife wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 1:43 pm

I know three who left Jazz with under approx 2000 hours and less than a year with the company, one less than 6.

First it was 1000hrs, then 1500 now just under 2000. Do I hear 2500? Seriously though, I'm saying I personally haven't heard of 1500-2000 hrs guys being hired here, and was told at a previous union meeting our new hires were over 3000, if you say otherwise, ok then, but know AC has also hired 1500 hr or so pilots.

Additionally, I was under the impression that AT was looking for buyers not the other way around.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/transat-rep ... -1.1228931
First paragraph from the last quarterly report (March 2019)
Transat A.T. chairman Jean-Marc Eustache dismissed the possibility of selling off the airline unit he co-founded 33 years ago, as the travel company faces higher costs and rising competition from Canadian airlines amid a transition toward sun destinations and beachside resorts.


Lastly, the last time AC bought what is now Jazz the pilots got @#$! all. I'm surprised you didn't know that. So to say Jazz would get the same (DOH) is rediculous. The ALPA merger policy is one of the biggest hang ups right now that ACPA has with going back to ALPA. They have made it clear no Jazz pilot will receive DOH.

I'm well aware of the previous attempts at common employer and why it failed. However, as it stands, Jazz is a separate company, Transat will not be if the deal goes through, how is this not obvious.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by thesimplelife » Sun May 19, 2019 2:08 pm

TSAM wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 2:02 pm
thesimplelife wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 1:43 pm

I know three who left Jazz with under approx 2000 hours and less than a year with the company, one less than 6.

First it was 1000hrs, then 1500 now just under 2000. Do I hear 2500? Seriously though, I'm saying I personally haven't heard of 1500-2000 hrs guys being hired here, and was told at a previous union meeting our new hires were over 3000, if you say otherwise, ok then, but know AC has also hired 1500 hr or so pilots.

Additionally, I was under the impression that AT was looking for buyers not the other way around.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/transat-rep ... -1.1228931
First paragraph from the last quarterly report (March 2019)
Transat A.T. chairman Jean-Marc Eustache dismissed the possibility of selling off the airline unit he co-founded 33 years ago, as the travel company faces higher costs and rising competition from Canadian airlines amid a transition toward sun destinations and beachside resorts.


Lastly, the last time AC bought what is now Jazz the pilots got @#$! all. I'm surprised you didn't know that. So to say Jazz would get the same (DOH) is rediculous. The ALPA merger policy is one of the biggest hang ups right now that ACPA has with going back to ALPA. They have made it clear no Jazz pilot will receive DOH.

I'm well aware of the previous attempts at common employer and why it failed. However, as it stands, Jazz is a separate company, Transat will not be if the deal goes through, how is this not obvious.
Jazz was wholly owned by Air Canada. So the same situation here. Airline bought up, but no common list.

As for the new hires at AT I'm sure most are 3000+ etc I'm just mentioning a small few that didn't fit that mold. Just like AC has in the past hired lower time pilots. That being said right now the hard minimum seems to be 2000 hours and an ATPL.

Anyways, enough posting for me for the day time to go slam on some landings.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Fanblade » Sun May 19, 2019 4:08 pm

The difference between Jazz and Transat is that Jazz operates wholly in an area that is permitted to be contracted out and does not require AC pilots on the AC pilot seniority list operating the aircraft. Less than 80ish seats.

Transat flies aircraft that can not be contracted out and require pilots on the AC pilot seniority list operating them. Transat pilots can not fly those aircraft on behalf of AC without integration. Nor can AC just buy Transat and ditch its employees. The only option becomes integration.

Unless you want to open the door to pilots not on our seniority list operating WB aircraft for AC? We have to integrate.

Opening that door would be a very very bad idea. Like really bad idea. :shock: The speed at which AC would start transferring work to Transat would make your head spin.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by TFTMB heavy » Sun May 19, 2019 4:52 pm

Fanblade wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 4:08 pm
The difference between Jazz and Transat is that Jazz operates wholly in an area that is permitted to be contracted out and does not require AC pilots on the AC pilot seniority list operating the aircraft. Less than 80ish seats.

Transat flies aircraft that can not be contracted out and require pilots on the AC pilot seniority list operating them. Transat pilots can not fly those aircraft on behalf of AC without integration. Nor can AC just buy Transat and ditch its employees. The only option becomes integration.

Unless you want to open the door to pilots not on our seniority list operating WB aircraft for AC? We have to integrate.

Opening that door would be a very very bad idea. Like really bad idea. :shock: The speed at which AC would start transferring work to Transat would make your head spin.
AC can also sit down with ACPA to come to an agreement so they don't have to integrate TS pilots and planes.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by digits_ » Sun May 19, 2019 5:09 pm

Jean-Pierre wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 10:41 am
What about the fact that AC has a file on the vast majority of AT pilot because they applied there and were not chosen to be hired. These pilot that were deem not acceptable at the time are suddenly going to be given no interview job at AC, something not even AC Express get?
And how many jazz pilots that were initially turned down by AC are now working there?

How many encore and westjet pilots that were initially turned down by AC would now be working there?

A pilot gets turned down by AC, works at air transat for 20 years, is a widebody captain, never applied at AC again and now gets "sold" to AC. You think he should interview?

Jeesh.

So to answer your question: there's nothing about that fact. It's completely irrelevant.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by danield » Sun May 19, 2019 7:54 pm

av8ts wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 8:11 am
Dry Guy wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 5:43 am
av8ts wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 4:32 am

Really BOTL. Comfort in knowing pay won’t be hurt??? There’s way more to life than pay. Vacation schedule, monthly schedule are just 2 I can think of that that would be horrible going from a senior Capt go a BOTL FO
Their airplane got sold.
No it didn’t. AC had to buy Transat before Onex did and merged it with WJ. They were a threat to AC and the pilots should be treated as equals
Pilots should be treated as equals?

Junior 330 CA 20 years of service $278,000 a year at AC
330 FO average 10-15 years of service $212,000 a year

Junior 330 CA 6 years of service $175,000 a year at AT
330 FO 1-5 years, $75,000 a year

something doesn't add up

oh and not to mention the 777 or 787. At Transat a 330 Captain makes less and works more than a 330 FO at Air Canada. 6 years gets you a junior $220,000 NB CA position at Air Canada or a $200,000 WB FO. Pay raise or seniority? Choose one, not both. What the industry needs is less of these low cost carriers and people to wait in line like everybody else.

How about the pilots who worked at Express for years.

Or the pilots who LEFT Transat for AC to improve their career progression.

Equals? I don't think so. Maybe when compared to Sunwing or WestJet, or Cargojet for that matter.
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digits_
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by digits_ » Sun May 19, 2019 8:52 pm

So where is this line that people have to wait in? In front of the Air Canada headquarters? And once you start working somewhere else, you're out?

Let's look at it from a different persective: AC obviously saw some value in AT. Maybe they liked the pilots soo much? After all, according to your example, AT pilots are able to command a 330 after 6 years. Apparently it takes AC pilots 20 years to achieve the same?

The last part was a bit of a joke, but the first statement stands: AC thought it was best for AC if they bought AT. Why would you punish the AT pilot for working for the AC group now? They're on your team. Welcome them. And be happy that you've enjoyed higher salaries for years.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by FL320 » Sun May 19, 2019 11:04 pm

Maybe they liked the pilots soo much? After all, according to your example, AT pilots are able to command a 330 after 6 years. Apparently it takes AC pilots 20 years to achieve the same?
I would add they are able to command an A330 for 6 months and then a B737NG for the other 6 months with only 2 sim and a PPC :rolleyes:
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Victory » Mon May 20, 2019 1:46 am

God I hope this deal doesn't go through. Let WestJet buy them and see how they like it there. Call the competition bureau. This deal would make Air Canada too much of a monopoly!
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by TSAM » Mon May 20, 2019 2:28 am

It amazes me at how some here are dismissive of the facts, and will skew them to their own (un)favourable view. You're either dense, a troll, or chicken little reincarnate (I assume he died when the sky fell). So as my final post on this matter, let me spin it for you naysayers to the view you want to hear (totallynotfakenews). Here are the real facts in chronological order:

-Feb 2019: After a dismal quarterly report where Transat shares fell 50%, CEO Jean-Marc Eustache declares bankruptcy is around the corner without a buyer. All signs indicate he's desperate to sell.

-Feb 2019: Days later numerous bids for Transat roll in. The best offer at $16/share is lead by Caisse de Depot

-Mar 2019: A rogue element of the top 300 senior pilots at TS secretly approach ACPA MEC for an under the table deal. The details are sketchy at this point but so far confirmed that the top 300 who've always desperately wanted to be at AC will integrated with position and pay (% based) therefore a top payscale 10 year Capt will go to top AC payscale. All will get YUL if desired. The rest of the TS pilot group will also see huge benefit, with position and pay ++ %based

-Apr 2019: With this secret deal with ACPA, the rogue pilots approach and unbelievably convince Mr. Eustache to approach AC and ask Calin to submit a deal. Calin who is ever the shark sees the opportunity to pay less than $16/share and offers $13/share.

-Apr 2019: Under the AC deal, all of Air Transat will be bought. Other than personnel, all other assests to be sold off. Therefore, all Transat leases to be returned. AC gets the pilots they are desperately short of. The deal with ACPA and the 300 is approved by Calin. The Jazz flow agreement will be halted indefinitely, as the applications at Jazz have dried up since January 2019.

-Apr/May 2019: The implications for the rest of the AC pilots (majority below Transat pilots) will see their upgrade times increase by a factor of 5 years, if not more. ACPA makes a deal with Calin to maintain the current contract with only minor improvements, $10,000 sign bonus for the pilots (as that's usually enough to get a deal done).

-May 2019: News breaks around the world of the pending deal to be signed shortly.

-May2019: Transat pilots are ecstatic! They've won the lottery! Many have already bought new cars and houses. Plenty have already updated their FB profiles to Air Canada pilot! What a glorious day to be a Transat pilot, all thanks to the hard work of the rogue 300 and ACPA! God bless them!

See you soon my negative AC commrades. You'll spot me rolling in level 4 of the parking garage in my Mercedes with the personalized plates of "AC 982" (my soon to be seniority#)
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by av8ts » Mon May 20, 2019 3:13 am

So are there 3 AC pilot groups now. The Original AC Pilots, the Original Original AC Pilots and the Original Original Original AC pilots
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by danield » Mon May 20, 2019 5:31 am

TSAM wrote:
Mon May 20, 2019 2:28 am
It amazes me at how some here are dismissive of the facts, and will skew them to their own (un)favourable view. You're either dense, a troll, or chicken little reincarnate (I assume he died when the sky fell). So as my final post on this matter, let me spin it for you naysayers to the view you want to hear (totallynotfakenews). Here are the real facts in chronological order:

-Feb 2019: After a dismal quarterly report where Transat shares fell 50%, CEO Jean-Marc Eustache declares bankruptcy is around the corner without a buyer. All signs indicate he's desperate to sell.

-Feb 2019: Days later numerous bids for Transat roll in. The best offer at $16/share is lead by Caisse de Depot

-Mar 2019: A rogue element of the top 300 senior pilots at TS secretly approach ACPA MEC for an under the table deal. The details are sketchy at this point but so far confirmed that the top 300 who've always desperately wanted to be at AC will integrated with position and pay (% based) therefore a top payscale 10 year Capt will go to top AC payscale. All will get YUL if desired. The rest of the TS pilot group will also see huge benefit, with position and pay ++ %based

-Apr 2019: With this secret deal with ACPA, the rogue pilots approach and unbelievably convince Mr. Eustache to approach AC and ask Calin to submit a deal. Calin who is ever the shark sees the opportunity to pay less than $16/share and offers $13/share.

-Apr 2019: Under the AC deal, all of Air Transat will be bought. Other than personnel, all other assests to be sold off. Therefore, all Transat leases to be returned. AC gets the pilots they are desperately short of. The deal with ACPA and the 300 is approved by Calin. The Jazz flow agreement will be halted indefinitely, as the applications at Jazz have dried up since January 2019.

-Apr/May 2019: The implications for the rest of the AC pilots (majority below Transat pilots) will see their upgrade times increase by a factor of 5 years, if not more. ACPA makes a deal with Calin to maintain the current contract with only minor improvements, $10,000 sign bonus for the pilots (as that's usually enough to get a deal done).

-May 2019: News breaks around the world of the pending deal to be signed shortly.

-May2019: Transat pilots are ecstatic! They've won the lottery! Many have already bought new cars and houses. Plenty have already updated their FB profiles to Air Canada pilot! What a glorious day to be a Transat pilot, all thanks to the hard work of the rogue 300 and ACPA! God bless them!

See you soon my negative AC commrades. You'll spot me rolling in level 4 of the parking garage in my Mercedes with the personalized plates of "AC 982" (my soon to be seniority#)
Hmm, so you should be rewarded for lowering the industry standard for years at Transat? And benefit for others hard work and progress? You my friend are what is wrong with the industry. Enjoy your new seniority number and your new job.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by FL320 » Mon May 20, 2019 6:25 am

Hmm, so you should be rewarded for lowering the industry standard for years at Transat? And benefit for others hard work and progress? You my friend are what is wrong with the industry. Enjoy your new seniority number and your new job.
Danield, there is no need to be condescending when you are one of (if not) the lowest paid major airline pilot in the world. Most of us -pilots- at any airline had to work VERY hard for our progress; don’t be disrespectful because you had the opportunity to get a job at AC; especially if by hard work and progress you mean having spent just a few years at Jazz or any other ultra low cost feeder..there is nothing to be proud of. I know many of your colleagues who started their career by paying their PPC and flying for free, they’re not at AC thanks to their hard work and ethic.
Many pilots had to choose another path because they couldn’t afford anymore the huge income loss by starting at the bottom of the AC seniority list when the company reopened the hiring door; we’re not all 25 years old living in a basement.
A selfish attitude is what is wrong, not only in this industry but in the 2019 world.
Pilots should be treated as equals?

Junior 330 CA 20 years of service $278,000 a year at AC
330 FO average 10-15 years of service $212,000 a year

Junior 330 CA 6 years of service $175,000 a year at AT
330 FO 1-5 years, $75,000 a year

something doesn't add up
I really don’t understand your comparison 10-15 to a 1-5 year paysacle?
Anyway it seems an 330 FO 12 years at AC is at 174,156$; not 212k. And top Captain year 12 is at 269,628$ not 278k (unless there is a special rate for ‘’JUNIOR CA 20 years’’ ? :lol: ).
Now if in your numbers you add overtime, we too have FOs at AT earning above 200k...
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Last edited by FL320 on Mon May 20, 2019 10:05 am, edited 15 times in total.

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