AC offer AT $13 per share

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BTD
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by BTD »

Jettime3 wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 3:43 pm
Victory wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 10:44 am
ahramin wrote:
Tue May 21, 2019 9:25 am
Not to mention the Azores bird is still in the fleet.
Is the pilot? I seem to recall he was a former drug smuggler. Not sure how the Transat background check missed that.
2016, two Transat A330 guys, arrested in Scotland for being intoxicated then getting away with it because of a glitch , authorities lost the blood samples. Another guy who likes the white powder was rejected twice by AC is currently flying as an FO the A330 . And these pilots are going to go above AC pilots? ACPA is not ALPA! And TS is the one looking for buyers not the other way around. How is it DOH comes to play ? Not even an Air Canada subsidiary.
This isn’t a good argument. There are some valid arguments, but with this one it just becomes a game of count the morons on either side and whoever has more loses.

Not a good way to go about it.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

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GATRKGA
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by GATRKGA »

Jettime LOL!

Why don't we go through the list of winners that got hired at AC?

Rouge FO found dead in her hotel room by hanging herself? She passed a psych eval and "captain SR's" fist pumps.
Another new hire at AC that at his old company kept asking FA's and Captains what they thought about pedophiles, and defending that they're just misunderstood members of society. He joined you guys in October of 2018.
How about the 300 lb winner that fell down from his balcony and had to go on disability? He was intoxicated on a layover.
What about the loser that got arrested in Germany for being caught masturbating on his hotel balcony?
And then we have the recent new hire that ended up on the A320 in YYZ, but didn't want to commute so he just stayed in YVR the whole time and ended up getting into a huge scandal with ACPA and his managers? Simply because he didn't care enough to meet his end of the deal? Yea some real responsible winnners you guys have over there too jettime... :roll:

Give me a break man. There's absolutely nothing concise about AC's hiring practices. The people with your level of intelligence are the idiots that walk around the airport with their hats, looking ever so insecure, deep down wondering if the people looking at you are wishing they were in your shoes or not.

Tid for Tat? No. There are some stellar guys at Air Canada. Some fantastic guys at Transat. Some even great guys at WJ/Encore and all the express carriers. Don't let the few losers identify the direction of why this possible merger should go in the favor of your insecure position on the ACPA seniority list.

For the record, I don't think Jettime represents the majority of AC pilots. Reading comments from guys like fanblade, alti, thestig, dukepoint, etc gives me hope that for once, something good could happen in our industry.

Good luck you guys!
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by altiplano »

I don't know... I think that's uncalled for... tit for tat or whatever... I don't think you want to get in the ditch.

I don't know most of those stories... but if someone hung themselves that's tragic... maybe best not to sensationalise it here to make a point...

I heard of the drunk rouge FO falling off his balcony, I heard he's done medically, won't fly again...

The guy in Mainz... well there aren't any balconies, apparently he thought the window was one way glass... Kinda like the United guy a while back that was tackled by gun drawn police for being naked in his hotel room...

Anyway..
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Dry Guy »

GATRKGA wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 11:16 am
And then we have the recent new hire that ended up on the A320 in YYZ, but didn't want to commute so he just stayed in YVR the whole time and ended up getting into a huge scandal with ACPA and his managers?
What? Like they just didn't show up to training in YYZ when assigned?
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GATRKGA
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by GATRKGA »

Alti, Tsam. Fantastic. That's exactly the point I was trying to make. It shouldn't be necessary to out incidents of retards as justification that a group is less worthy than another.

There's no point in going down the path of "outing" the minority of douchebags that slip through the cracks. Air Canada has its fair share of idiots, as do other airlines as well. But because AC is perceived to being the "end all be all" of places to be, the expectation and perception is that AC pilots are the best and that they shall be privy as untouchables.

Truth is if AC doesn't buy Transat, Onyx will gladly give AC a run for its monopoly and acquire TS. If not them, TUI, or someone else will. Make no mistake, this is a fantastic purchase for the business of Air Canada. And for its employees, it creates stability and even more job security. Would you rather take an upgrade after 4 years and have your contract renegotiated down to a D level pay in the tenure of your 30-year career, or would you rather take the upgrade later and have better and better contracts as time goes on? We are some of the most short-sighted individuals as a majority. Has it ever occurred to you upgrade-chasers that if the pay and lifestyle were quickly available in the right seat, that you aren't forced to take an upgrade and eat menard for the large portion of your junior careers? Again... a short-sighted approach for those that are threatened by their upgrade.

Think about it, with Transat being gone, ACPA doesn't have to negotiate a b scale airline called rouge. You guys have a huge bargaining chip in front of you with the acquisition of Air Transat to bring everything back in-house under Air Canada again. Please add max 14 days or something to your wide body operation... so they don't run A330's between YYC and YWG lol.

600 pilots make for a meager 12.5 percent of 4800 total pilots that would be on the property. Of the 12.5 percent, roughly 50% of them have less than 15 years left in their careers. You do the math. It's not a bad move to have them come over. The retirements will go from 700 in the next 10 years, to 1000, and you have an additional 30 or so aircraft on property. DOH won't be the end of the day. Not that I think that's what will happen. But food for thought.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by tdp19 »

GATRKGA wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 3:33 pm
Alti, Tsam. Fantastic. That's exactly the point I was trying to make. It shouldn't be necessary to out incidents of retards as justification that a group is less worthy than another.

There's no point in going down the path of "outing" the minority of douchebags that slip through the cracks. Air Canada has its fair share of idiots, as do other airlines as well. But because AC is perceived to being the "end all be all" of places to be, the expectation and perception is that AC pilots are the best and that they shall be privy as untouchables.

Truth is if AC doesn't buy Transat, Onyx will gladly give AC a run for its monopoly and acquire TS. If not them, TUI, or someone else will. Make no mistake, this is a fantastic purchase for the business of Air Canada. And for its employees, it creates stability and even more job security. Would you rather take an upgrade after 4 years and have your contract renegotiated down to a D level pay in the tenure of your 30-year career, or would you rather take the upgrade later and have better and better contracts as time goes on? We are some of the most short-sighted individuals as a majority. Has it ever occurred to you upgrade-chasers that if the pay and lifestyle were quickly available in the right seat, that you aren't forced to take an upgrade and eat menard for the large portion of your junior careers? Again... a short-sighted approach for those that are threatened by their upgrade.

Think about it, with Transat being gone, ACPA doesn't have to negotiate a b scale airline called rouge. You guys have a huge bargaining chip in front of you with the acquisition of Air Transat to bring everything back in-house under Air Canada again. Please add max 14 days or something to your wide body operation... so they don't run A330's between YYC and YWG lol.

600 pilots make for a meager 12.5 percent of 4800 total pilots that would be on the property. Of the 12.5 percent, roughly 50% of them have less than 15 years left in their careers. You do the math. It's not a bad move to have them come over. The retirements will go from 700 in the next 10 years, to 1000, and you have an additional 30 or so aircraft on property. DOH won't be the end of the day. Not that I think that's what will happen. But food for thought.
What are the retirement numbers for Transat? Ive seen the seniority list (DOH) and don't believe 300 of them only have 15 years or less left....
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by GATRKGA »

Talk to some of your transat buddies.

80-100 retirements in the next 2 years.

There’s 100 of your 300. The other 200 are holding top seniority numbers that will flush out in the next 15 years easily. The transat group was pretty aged before their expansion.

The seniority numbers in the last 3 year expansion has maybe been 300 pilots at best. Even if all of them are in their 20’s (which they’re not), you really have no concerns here. That’s what? A year worth of seniority at AC right now?

Do you really think monsieur piccard or bouchard who had their 60th bday is going to want to learn new sops and a new company operation for their command spots at AC? Not likely. These guys have lots of stock options and at 13/share they will retire quite comfortably. You won’t have as many transat pilots slot in as much as you think. Maybe 350-400 effective numbers and 30 some airplanes worth of positions. What’s that? 16 pilots per plane? X 30? = 480 positions? Life is pretty good for you guys over at AC. Stop worrying.
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Just another canuck
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Just another canuck »

GATRKGA wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 8:35 pm
Talk to some of your transat buddies.

80-100 retirements in the next 2 years.

There’s 100 of your 300. The other 200 are holding top seniority numbers that will flush out in the next 15 years easily. The transat group was pretty aged before their expansion.

The seniority numbers in the last 3 year expansion has maybe been 300 pilots at best. Even if all of them are in their 20’s (which they’re not), you really have no concerns here. That’s what? A year worth of seniority at AC right now?

Do you really think monsieur piccard or bouchard who had their 60th bday is going to want to learn new sops and a new company operation for their command spots at AC? Not likely. These guys have lots of stock options and at 13/share they will retire quite comfortably. You won’t have as many transat pilots slot in as much as you think. Maybe 350-400 effective numbers and 30 some airplanes worth of positions. What’s that? 16 pilots per plane? X 30? = 480 positions? Life is pretty good for you guys over at AC. Stop worrying.
It's only about a dozen a year for the next few years actually... Based on age 65 of course. I had the list in my hands just weeks ago. Some may go earlier. That being said, you're right. Anyone who can retire will and some may go overseas I suspect. 300 is a bit optimistic I think but it's certainly close over 15 years. We've hired a number of young guys and gals who have lots of time left but also lots in their 40's and 50's as well. But based on pilots per plane, if this thing does go through, I believe it will initially create more positions at AC, not just fill the void... Assuming all the planes are still operational of course. 330's and 321's.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Dry Guy »

This deal seems just as much about securing pilots as airplanes. After all what keeps management up at night is how to obtain more pilots (without having to pay more). This will effectively delay the pilot shortage for 2 years and give them breathing room to come up with a new plan or for the economy to tank.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by snowcone »

What if air canada doesn’t actually want to buy it. They put an offer if, but it gets turned down by the completion police.

The precedent is set and onex can’t buy it either.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by rudder »

snowcone wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:01 am
What if air canada doesn’t actually want to buy it. They put an offer if, but it gets turned down by the completion police.

The precedent is set and onex can’t buy it either.
Completely different issues.

The Competition Bureau makes recommendations based on impact of the proposed transaction on the competition/market/consumer.

The only real issue in the AC/TS transaction is resulting market share on the North Atlantic. The Competition Bureau can make remedial recommendations that still permit the transaction on a conditional basis.

Ultimately it is the Minister and the CTA that decide.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by fish4life »

snowcone wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:01 am
What if air canada doesn’t actually want to buy it. They put an offer if, but it gets turned down by the completion police.

The precedent is set and onex can’t buy it either.
That would only work as a precedent it WJ has the same TATL market share as AC but it doesn’t. In fact the WJ AT merger would only have 23% of the market share compared to the 42% AC currently has.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Duke Point »

I still don't believe the merge will be as "impactful" overall as some might think.

Transat -will- be bringing assets, and with only 12% of the overall number, and our need for qualified pilots, the absorbtion rate will be quick. However, since a good portion of the Transat pilots are Montreal residents, the "base impact" might be a better topic for discussion. Any idea on base percentages of current Transat pilots? I can't see anyone being forcibly moved to another city. I do forsee the size of the Montreal base rising by 50% or more.

Infighting and division are -by far- our biggest threats. Fast integration and "keeping our eye on the ball" to secure gains for the entire group during this process will further mitigate the initial pain to be felt by most hired after 1997.

DP.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by yycflyguy »

The "base" discussion is significant. The last re-opener passed ratification partly based on the fear of a Transat merger for the YUL pilots. They were given false promises that there wouldn't be a merger if they helped ratify another round of insignificant negotiation. It passed ratification and now a merger is imminent. Talk about getting played. Base politics has been a detriment to collective bargaining for the entire group for longer than I have been at AC.

It is my understanding that the pilots are split around 50/50% YUL/YYZ, but most YYZ pilots were looking to transfer to YUL. Could someone confirm that?

It will definitely affect the seniority and career advancement of YUL base if the majority of Transat guys want to be based there too.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Daniel Cooper »

YUL will likely be a 777 base again.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Duke Point »

….yes. And the 330 might apparently show positions back in YYZ, at least according to the bid memo.

Wondering if that has anything to do with the merger?

DP.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by altiplano »

"Insignificant negotiations"

Lots of real cherries in there...

Bad faith negotiations there pulling the rug out not even 2 years later... where Dan C.?
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by BTD »

Duke Point wrote:
Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:42 pm
….yes. And the 330 might apparently show positions back in YYZ, at least according to the bid memo.

Wondering if that has anything to do with the merger?

DP.
There was talk about that before the merger. There is seasonal flying out of YYZ on the 330 apparently that they can maintain a small base to handle. How the merger or additional 330 acquisitions further changes that could be interesting.
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by Oxi »

And then we have the recent new hire that ended up on the A320 in YYZ, but didn't want to commute so he just stayed in YVR the whole time and ended up getting into a huge scandal with ACPA and his managers?
can we please get more on this! :rolleyes:
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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

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Re: AC offer AT $13 per share

Post by '97 Tercel »

Haha, now it's getting interesting....

Do I hear a $14.75 from Onyx?
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