AC offer AT $13 per share

[av8ts]

Really BOTL. Comfort in knowing pay won’t be hurt??? There’s way more to life than pay. Vacation schedule, monthly schedule are just 2 I can think of that that would be horrible going from a senior Capt go a BOTL FO

Their airplane got sold.

No it didn’t. AC had to buy Transat before Onex did and merged it with WJ. They were a threat to AC and the pilots should be treated as equals

[Fanblade]

Some History.

During the AC/CDN merger

The economic state of CDN didn’t matter to the arbitrator. They were bought as a going concern. It was irrelevant.

The pay differences between AC and CDN did not matter to the arbitrator. It was irrelevant.

The rationalizations and justifications posted here are meaningless. You won’t be able to discount the other side based on something the arbitrator views as irrelevant.

The arbitrator will not look at career progression as we know it. He won’t even clearly understand it. The arbitrator won’t even remotely understand why one group thinks they are more deserving than the other. They will view you as equals.

It will never come from an arbitrator. If you stick to your guns on irrelevant points to justify your position you guarantee arbitration.

[ahramin]

Really BOTL. Comfort in knowing pay won’t be hurt??? There’s way more to life than pay. Vacation schedule, monthly schedule are just 2 I can think of that that would be horrible going from a senior Capt go a BOTL FO

Their airplane got sold.

Or, thinking of it another way, their airplane got bought.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Transat has been hiring 1000hr instructors, congratulations on winning the lotto

Really ? Sounds like the person living in Northern Quebec telling me that the Montreal neighbourhood where I live is full of burka clad women.... I have yet to see one....

[FL-280]

Transat has been hiring 1000hr instructors, congratulations on winning the lotto

Really ? Sounds like the person living in Northern Quebec telling me that the Montreal neighbourhood where I live is full of burka clad women.... I have yet to see one....

Maybe a little far fetched, but 1 500 TT with a bit of Turbine time yes. Some pilots left the AC express brand to go to Transat, the pilots who sticked it out in the regional are going to get shafted now. My point is, Transat hire's with less experience than AC, that is for sure. I doubt doh will go through, but if it does these pilots have just won the lotto.

[fruitloops]

So many ways to slice it but DOH appears to be the fairest solution with some fences as others have mentioned before.

What could be some of the 'fences' that could result with a merge?

Maybe its DOH but unable to bid outside of AT equipment for AT pilots and visa versa for AC pilots the first two years, so that there is a period where each groups positions/equipment is protected and potential progression is not affected by cross bidders. Could something of this nature happen?

Either way its a good move to AC's and AT's future so I will welcome AT pilots if/when the deal gets completed.

It appears that year 1,2,3 and 4 AT pilots make more than AC flat pay. Definitely going to be some renegotiation of agreements coming.

Anyone have an updated AT pay scale?

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/air ... ir_transat

4 86000 86000
3 80000 80000
2 74000 74000
1 68000 68000

http://negotech.labour.gc.ca/eng/agreem ... 25005a.pdf
May 1, 2013 to April 30, 2014
Years of service Hourly rate Annual
salary
Lump
amount Total Years of
service Hourly rate Annual
salary

2014 numbers
Entry 1 $52.08...... $50,000
Entry 2 $57.29 ......$55,000
0-1 $73.84..... $70,885
1-2 $80.35 .....$77,140

[Jean-Pierre]

What about the fact that AC has a file on the vast majority of AT pilot because they applied there and were not chosen to be hired. These pilot that were deem not acceptable at the time are suddenly going to be given no interview job at AC, something not even AC Express get?

[TFTMB heavy]

So many ways to slice it but DOH appears to be the fairest solution with some fences as others have mentioned before.

What could be some of the 'fences' that could result with a merge?

Maybe its DOH but unable to bid outside of AT equipment for AT pilots and visa versa for AC pilots the first two years, so that there is a period where each groups positions/equipment is protected and potential progression is not affected by cross bidders. Could something of this nature happen?

Either way its a good move to AC's and AT's future so I will welcome AT pilots if/when the deal gets completed.

It appears that year 1,2,3 and 4 AT pilots make more than AC flat pay. Definitely going to be some renegotiation of agreements coming.

Anyone have an updated AT pay scale?

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/air ... ir_transat

4 86000 86000
3 80000 80000
2 74000 74000
1 68000 68000

http://negotech.labour.gc.ca/eng/agreem ... 25005a.pdf
May 1, 2013 to April 30, 2014
Years of service Hourly rate Annual
salary
Lump
amount Total Years of
service Hourly rate Annual
salary

2014 numbers
Entry 1 $52.08...... $50,000
Entry 2 $57.29 ......$55,000
0-1 $73.84..... $70,885
1-2 $80.35 .....$77,140

Wide Body FO as of May 1 2019:

Annual Salary
$55,760
$69,535
$82,610
$89,898

Narrow Body FO as of May 1 2019:

Annual Salary

$55,760
$69,535
$76,483
$83,443

[TFTMB heavy]

What about the fact that AC has a file on the vast majority of AT pilot because they applied there and were not chosen to be hired. These pilot that were deem not acceptable at the time are suddenly going to be given no interview job at AC, something not even AC Express get?

Why does it matter? People make decisions and have to live with them. Nobody asked for this at TS or at AC but we have to live with it. The deck gets re-shuffled and you keep playing your cards.

[thesimplelife]

What about the fact that AC has a file on the vast majority of AT pilot because they applied there and were not chosen to be hired. These pilot that were deem not acceptable at the time are suddenly going to be given no interview job at AC, something not even AC Express get?

Not to mention the dozens of AC Express pilots who left Jazz for AT after 6 months on the job and 1500 hours...

[TSAM]

.

[thesimplelife]

I don't know of any 1500 hr hires at TS. Even if there were, you should know AC has hired 1500 hr pilots from Jazz, GGN and SR, including at least 1 or 2 that were told once they have their ATPL they'll get the next spot (PML 1.0). Even on 2.0 there were many in the 1500-2000 hr range. If you chose to stick it out at Jazz, thats your choice. Others saw an opportunity elsewhere and are quite happy to be and stay at Transat. Again this merger isn't our choice. We were not selling, we were approached to be bought. Anything can be had for the right price. And for $13/share atm, it appears to buy 30 some tails, a number of routes, gates, positions, a great brand and very experienced flight crews and operations.

On a side note, if anyone thinks the merger is wrong, because it may affect you (doubtful), please let your management and shareholders know why it's a bad transaction not to have growth, stability and increased profits, because it may affect your upgrade time or seniority (again, doubtful). I'm sure many here at TS (myself included) will be content for going at it our own or with another buyer.

What about the fact that AC has a file on the vast majority of AT pilot because they applied there and were not chosen to be hired. These pilot that were deem not acceptable at the time are suddenly going to be given no interview job at AC, something not even AC Express get?

If AC buys out the rest of Jazz then I'm sure Jazz can get the same or better deal.

I know three who left Jazz with under approx 2000 hours and less than a year with the company, one less than 6.

Additionally, I was under the impression that AT was looking for buyers not the other way around.

Lastly, the last time AC bought what is now Jazz the pilots got @#$! all. I'm surprised you didn't know that. So to say Jazz would get the same (DOH) is rediculous. The ALPA merger policy is one of the biggest hang ups right now that ACPA has with going back to ALPA. They have made it clear no Jazz pilot will receive DOH.

[TSAM]

.

[thesimplelife]

I know three who left Jazz with under approx 2000 hours and less than a year with the company, one less than 6.

First it was 1000hrs, then 1500 now just under 2000. Do I hear 2500? Seriously though, I'm saying I personally haven't heard of 1500-2000 hrs guys being hired here, and was told at a previous union meeting our new hires were over 3000, if you say otherwise, ok then, but know AC has also hired 1500 hr or so pilots.

Additionally, I was under the impression that AT was looking for buyers not the other way around.

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/transat-rep ... -1.1228931
First paragraph from the last quarterly report (March 2019)

Transat A.T. chairman Jean-Marc Eustache dismissed the possibility of selling off the airline unit he co-founded 33 years ago, as the travel company faces higher costs and rising competition from Canadian airlines amid a transition toward sun destinations and beachside resorts.

Lastly, the last time AC bought what is now Jazz the pilots got @#$! all. I'm surprised you didn't know that. So to say Jazz would get the same (DOH) is rediculous. The ALPA merger policy is one of the biggest hang ups right now that ACPA has with going back to ALPA. They have made it clear no Jazz pilot will receive DOH.

I'm well aware of the previous attempts at common employer and why it failed. However, as it stands, Jazz is a separate company, Transat will not be if the deal goes through, how is this not obvious.

Jazz was wholly owned by Air Canada. So the same situation here. Airline bought up, but no common list.

As for the new hires at AT I'm sure most are 3000+ etc I'm just mentioning a small few that didn't fit that mold. Just like AC has in the past hired lower time pilots. That being said right now the hard minimum seems to be 2000 hours and an ATPL.

Anyways, enough posting for me for the day time to go slam on some landings.

[Fanblade]

The difference between Jazz and Transat is that Jazz operates wholly in an area that is permitted to be contracted out and does not require AC pilots on the AC pilot seniority list operating the aircraft. Less than 80ish seats.

Transat flies aircraft that can not be contracted out and require pilots on the AC pilot seniority list operating them. Transat pilots can not fly those aircraft on behalf of AC without integration. Nor can AC just buy Transat and ditch its employees. The only option becomes integration.

Unless you want to open the door to pilots not on our seniority list operating WB aircraft for AC? We have to integrate.

Opening that door would be a very very bad idea. Like really bad idea. The speed at which AC would start transferring work to Transat would make your head spin.

[TFTMB heavy]

The difference between Jazz and Transat is that Jazz operates wholly in an area that is permitted to be contracted out and does not require AC pilots on the AC pilot seniority list operating the aircraft. Less than 80ish seats.

Transat flies aircraft that can not be contracted out and require pilots on the AC pilot seniority list operating them. Transat pilots can not fly those aircraft on behalf of AC without integration. Nor can AC just buy Transat and ditch its employees. The only option becomes integration.

Unless you want to open the door to pilots not on our seniority list operating WB aircraft for AC? We have to integrate.

Opening that door would be a very very bad idea. Like really bad idea. The speed at which AC would start transferring work to Transat would make your head spin.

AC can also sit down with ACPA to come to an agreement so they don't have to integrate TS pilots and planes.

[digits_]

What about the fact that AC has a file on the vast majority of AT pilot because they applied there and were not chosen to be hired. These pilot that were deem not acceptable at the time are suddenly going to be given no interview job at AC, something not even AC Express get?

And how many jazz pilots that were initially turned down by AC are now working there?

How many encore and westjet pilots that were initially turned down by AC would now be working there?

A pilot gets turned down by AC, works at air transat for 20 years, is a widebody captain, never applied at AC again and now gets "sold" to AC. You think he should interview?

Jeesh.

So to answer your question: there's nothing about that fact. It's completely irrelevant.

[danield]

Really BOTL. Comfort in knowing pay won’t be hurt??? There’s way more to life than pay. Vacation schedule, monthly schedule are just 2 I can think of that that would be horrible going from a senior Capt go a BOTL FO

Their airplane got sold.

No it didn’t. AC had to buy Transat before Onex did and merged it with WJ. They were a threat to AC and the pilots should be treated as equals

Pilots should be treated as equals?

Junior 330 CA 20 years of service $278,000 a year at AC
330 FO average 10-15 years of service $212,000 a year

Junior 330 CA 6 years of service $175,000 a year at AT
330 FO 1-5 years, $75,000 a year

something doesn't add up

oh and not to mention the 777 or 787. At Transat a 330 Captain makes less and works more than a 330 FO at Air Canada. 6 years gets you a junior $220,000 NB CA position at Air Canada or a $200,000 WB FO. Pay raise or seniority? Choose one, not both. What the industry needs is less of these low cost carriers and people to wait in line like everybody else.

How about the pilots who worked at Express for years.

Or the pilots who LEFT Transat for AC to improve their career progression.

Equals? I don't think so. Maybe when compared to Sunwing or WestJet, or Cargojet for that matter.

[digits_]

So where is this line that people have to wait in? In front of the Air Canada headquarters? And once you start working somewhere else, you're out?

Let's look at it from a different persective: AC obviously saw some value in AT. Maybe they liked the pilots soo much? After all, according to your example, AT pilots are able to command a 330 after 6 years. Apparently it takes AC pilots 20 years to achieve the same?

The last part was a bit of a joke, but the first statement stands: AC thought it was best for AC if they bought AT. Why would you punish the AT pilot for working for the AC group now? They're on your team. Welcome them. And be happy that you've enjoyed higher salaries for years.

[FL320]

Maybe they liked the pilots soo much? After all, according to your example, AT pilots are able to command a 330 after 6 years. Apparently it takes AC pilots 20 years to achieve the same?

I would add they are able to command an A330 for 6 months and then a B737NG for the other 6 months with only 2 sim and a PPC