MPIC time or move on? What's next?

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Airsurfer101
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MPIC time or move on? What's next?

Post by Airsurfer101 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:26 pm

Good Day Everyone,

I am new here and this question might have been asked already, my apologies if so. I've been a 703/704 FO on a Multi-Turbo prop for about 8 month now. Started out of ramp in the middle of nowhere just like the old days. I am about to reach 1000TT soon. I've got an Aviation degree if that even counts for anything. Now, i am at this spot where everything turns pitch black and in need of your invaluable opinion which may help me my next entire life.

My plan is to stay and get my multiPIC with atpl and there after work my way into AirTransat, Westjet, Sky Regional or whichever opportunity with jet time comes first. Ideally, skipping any other regional turboprops. Ultimately, i would want to end up in AC but really trying my best to work my way around jazz.

Currently, it will take about another 6-8 month before i go Captain and i am not sure if i should stick around for that or say screw it and move on with Jazz asap? I wouldn't mind if i got jet time - YYZ based at Jazz, but then renting c172 for my A's would be pricey and going left seat with only those hours might screw me over. As a result, don't know what to do. In this case, what should be my the next step? Do i stick around for mpic time or move on?It seems that i can't see what's right or what's wrong at this point. I am also open to any other options/ suggestions or just any other thoughts.

Thanks for your time and help,sure enough drinks on me!
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goingnowherefast
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Re: MPIC time or move on? What's next?

Post by goingnowherefast » Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:19 pm

MPIC.

If you get laid off at the next economic downturn, then you'll have an ATPL, MPIC and many more job options than all the people who were in line for PICUS at a regional.

2000tt, CPL, 500 hrs on a Q400 right seat isn't worth as much as 2000tt, ATPL, 500 hrs MPIC.

What jobs are sorta recession proof? Government. What do a lot of government contracts require? ATPL and MPIC.

Don't think it will happen? In the early 2000s, people went from the right seat of a shiny new CRJ to a 180 on floats.
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goleafsgo
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Re: MPIC time or move on? What's next?

Post by goleafsgo » Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:57 pm

6-8 months really isn't that much of a wait in the grand scheme of things. Wait it out until you have enough time for your A's then start applying around
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Mrbobmarly111
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Re: MPIC time or move on? What's next?

Post by Mrbobmarly111 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:49 pm

You would be absolutely insane not to apply to Jazz asap!!!!! Who gives a shit if you get on a jet or not. You'll be at AC in 2 years. Want to know the hard truth. Without a degree AC wont look at you for atleast the next 5 plus years. You'll move up very quick at Jazz. Dont destroy your career and go to Encore or Westjet. Both places suck compared to Jazz and AC. Atleast at Jazz you will have a good schedule etc in 6 months. And dont waste any more time up north. I've been around for awhile and I'm telling you apply to Jazz tomorrow and be at AC in 2 years. Or stay up north for no reason and maybe get to AC in 10 years. And remember the wave will be over in 3 years. Anyways.... just my opinion
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mbav8r
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Re: MPIC time or move on? What's next?

Post by mbav8r » Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:46 am

Airsurfer101 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:26 pm
Good Day Everyone,

I am new here and this question might have been asked already, my apologies if so. I've been a 703/704 FO on a Multi-Turbo prop for about 8 month now. Started out of ramp in the middle of nowhere just like the old days. I am about to reach 1000TT soon. I've got an Aviation degree if that even counts for anything. Now, i am at this spot where everything turns pitch black and in need of your invaluable opinion which may help me my next entire life.

My plan is to stay and get my multiPIC with atpl and there after work my way into AirTransat, Westjet, Sky Regional or whichever opportunity with jet time comes first. Ideally, skipping any other regional turboprops. Ultimately, i would want to end up in AC but really trying my best to work my way around jazz.

Currently, it will take about another 6-8 month before i go Captain and i am not sure if i should stick around for that or say screw it and move on with Jazz asap? I wouldn't mind if i got jet time - YYZ based at Jazz, but then renting c172 for my A's would be pricey and going left seat with only those hours might screw me over. As a result, don't know what to do. In this case, what should be my the next step? Do i stick around for mpic time or move on?It seems that i can't see what's right or what's wrong at this point. I am also open to any other options/ suggestions or just any other thoughts.

Thanks for your time and help,sure enough drinks on me!
I think you should stick to the plan of of working around Jazz, I can almost guarantee you will end up on a turboprop and that’s no place for a high time pilot such as yourself.
Fact is Jazz doesn’t need your attitude, you will certainly be miserable here and best to avoid the disappointment!
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Mône
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Re: MPIC time or move on? What's next?

Post by Mône » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:09 am

mbav8r wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:46 am
Airsurfer101 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:26 pm
Good Day Everyone,

I am new here and this question might have been asked already, my apologies if so. I've been a 703/704 FO on a Multi-Turbo prop for about 8 month now. Started out of ramp in the middle of nowhere just like the old days. I am about to reach 1000TT soon. I've got an Aviation degree if that even counts for anything. Now, i am at this spot where everything turns pitch black and in need of your invaluable opinion which may help me my next entire life.

My plan is to stay and get my multiPIC with atpl and there after work my way into AirTransat, Westjet, Sky Regional or whichever opportunity with jet time comes first. Ideally, skipping any other regional turboprops. Ultimately, i would want to end up in AC but really trying my best to work my way around jazz.

Currently, it will take about another 6-8 month before i go Captain and i am not sure if i should stick around for that or say screw it and move on with Jazz asap? I wouldn't mind if i got jet time - YYZ based at Jazz, but then renting c172 for my A's would be pricey and going left seat with only those hours might screw me over. As a result, don't know what to do. In this case, what should be my the next step? Do i stick around for mpic time or move on?It seems that i can't see what's right or what's wrong at this point. I am also open to any other options/ suggestions or just any other thoughts.

Thanks for your time and help,sure enough drinks on me!
I think you should stick to the plan of of working around Jazz, I can almost guarantee you will end up on a turboprop and that’s no place for a high time pilot such as yourself.
Fact is Jazz doesn’t need your attitude, you will certainly be miserable here and best to avoid the disappointment!
+1
:prayer:
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altiplano
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Re: MPIC time or move on? What's next?

Post by altiplano » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:24 am

mbav8r wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:46 am
Airsurfer101 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:26 pm
Good Day Everyone,

I am new here and this question might have been asked already, my apologies if so. I've been a 703/704 FO on a Multi-Turbo prop for about 8 month now. Started out of ramp in the middle of nowhere just like the old days. I am about to reach 1000TT soon. I've got an Aviation degree if that even counts for anything. Now, i am at this spot where everything turns pitch black and in need of your invaluable opinion which may help me my next entire life.

My plan is to stay and get my multiPIC with atpl and there after work my way into AirTransat, Westjet, Sky Regional or whichever opportunity with jet time comes first. Ideally, skipping any other regional turboprops. Ultimately, i would want to end up in AC but really trying my best to work my way around jazz.

Currently, it will take about another 6-8 month before i go Captain and i am not sure if i should stick around for that or say screw it and move on with Jazz asap? I wouldn't mind if i got jet time - YYZ based at Jazz, but then renting c172 for my A's would be pricey and going left seat with only those hours might screw me over. As a result, don't know what to do. In this case, what should be my the next step? Do i stick around for mpic time or move on?It seems that i can't see what's right or what's wrong at this point. I am also open to any other options/ suggestions or just any other thoughts.

Thanks for your time and help,sure enough drinks on me!
I think you should stick to the plan of of working around Jazz, I can almost guarantee you will end up on a turboprop and that’s no place for a high time pilot such as yourself.
Fact is Jazz doesn’t need your attitude, you will certainly be miserable here and best to avoid the disappointment!
Do you take it personal that he's not super high on the idea of Jazz? Right or wrong in that idea, I don't detect any attitude in his post.

Anyway...

If the goal is airlines, and if the music stopped tomorrow, I would rather be sitting as an FO in any 705 machine than flying a twin in the North.

Really I think you should apply now, but PIC is important, and I certainly respect a guy more who spent time working in and surviving the conditions many of us were in for years versus a guy that's been managed as an FO in an airline for their whole career... so I get why you may want to spend some time there.

But balance it, and remember that you can't count on those airline jobs always being available and easy pickings, maybe unlikely, but things could stop abruptly. Also you leave seniority on the table by delaying, that's money, schedule, lifestyle.

I'd apply to AC now... start getting a track record of wanting to work there, that counts, and it can take years of applying before getting called by them.

Then get close to the time needed for your ATPL, but not much more, and apply to all the other airlines, including Jazz... that's a fine job that is a career company for a of people, with a pretty decent contract.

Paying your dues up North is great and experience is great, but why dwell on it longer than necessary and risk lost opportunity.
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CZBBYYZPilot
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Re: MPIC time or move on? What's next?

Post by CZBBYYZPilot » Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:52 am

Seniority, not MPIC, makes you recession proof at a 705 company like Jazz. They have a brand new agreement that keeps job security at jazz for the foreseeable future. So what if you end up on a turboprop. Once you have seniority, you can bid on the jet if it fills your boots. I didn't go to jazz, stayed up North an extra year to get my MPIC on a metro. I don't have any doubts that it made me a better pilot, more capable, confident, and ready to fly the big Jets. But I also turned down an opportunity to possibly be on PML 1.0 and Jazz's A pay scale. I don't know for certain that I would've gotten the job, but it was possibly a missed opportunity. I went to a different regional, and ended up at Air Canada anyways, and am happy with my choices. But go to the 705. If the music stops, you'll be in an excellent seat. Flow to AC will be mainly from jazz. Just my two cents. Good luck!
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Warden
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Re: MPIC time or move on? What's next?

Post by Warden » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:07 pm

I would have thought this kinda stuff is beaten to death.

Get a job at a 705 regional. Simple. Be it Jazz (IMO probably the best for recession proofness), Porter, Encore, Sky Regional etc.

No one will think any better of you if you "skip Jazz" other than instead of being my FO in a few years you'll be my RP in 2030. :lol:
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goingnowherefast
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Re: MPIC time or move on? What's next?

Post by goingnowherefast » Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:36 pm

People seem to be assuming that Jazz won't be laying off at the next recession. I bet the bottom chunk of the Jazz seniority list will be begging for a Navajo FO job.
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cheeky cough
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Re: MPIC time or move on? What's next?

Post by cheeky cough » Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:12 pm

Good point . Left 703 Captain job in 2000 ( which has never laid off in over 50 years) to an Air Canada regional, which became Jazz , 2001 ish. Got laid off 2003, after fallout of 911. All of the pilots that were not quite ready to leave to next level at 703 company ,who were our FOs,all kept their jobs and a few , bypassed us to Air Canada.

It is a rotten business. I use to say Jazz was a career killer. We use to beg to get jobs there and now they are going to flight colleges begging new pilots to go there.

It may be quickest route to AC, but in a downtown, which seems to be on the horizon, layoff first. Remember as young person the years you have left to retire.Even a couple years will not matter.

Whatever decision, YOU, make is the right one.
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Mr. North
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Re: MPIC time or move on? What's next?

Post by Mr. North » Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:33 am

If AC is your main objective and time is of the essence, go to Jazz and get it over with. However it's worth noting that a large swath of Canadian aviation is being bypassed by people on the direct-to-AC. Excellent jobs across the country that used to be highly sought-after are going to whoever walks through the door. Take a moment to think of all the opportunities out there and the excellent experience they offer. The choices may not lead you to AC in a straight line but for the wandering type the rewards are well worth the risk.
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Re: MPIC time or move on? What's next?

Post by Inverted2 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 4:43 pm

goingnowherefast wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 2:36 pm
People seem to be assuming that Jazz won't be laying off at the next recession. I bet the bottom chunk of the Jazz seniority list will be begging for a Navajo FO job.
I think in the next major recession if one one company lays off so would the other. AC won't fly half empty planes to YQT or YFC etc to protect AC pilot jobs. Some routes could go back to the regionals.
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