Typical New Hire RP Schedule.

[losercruiser]

I did a full FO course for 787 RP and then proceeded to sign it off in my license as 787 - RP. Not sure if they were afraid WJ was going to start poaching guys, this was under MS.

Yup this is standard.

I think they are more worried about China.

But seriously RPs would be so much more valuable to the company if they were all FOs. Especially with the new regs, and given it's a full FO course anyways.

[altiplano]

It used to be the full type rating.

I thought that was a condition of allowing RPs...

What does an RP type look like on your licence?

[losercruiser]

It used to be the full type rating.

I thought that was a condition of allowing RPs...

What does an RP type look like on your licence?

B777 and in the notes it says company "Cruise Relief only" or something along those lines. I don't feel like going to go find it right now.

Full FO course, full FO ride... And the difference is checking one box or the other. And now if I want to go FO I have to burn a half course which is kinda bullshit. Even though the training is EXACTLY the same.

[altiplano]

That's a downer.

I know we went to a short course briefly maybe 5 or so years ago to reduce training footprints, but I understood we were back to the full FO course for RPs.

If you do a full course with a group 1 ride on the MTV and an LOE, it should be a full type rating.

Is it just some checkers are signing it off that way? or is it policy now? I know some of the "nazi youth" have made their way up to the big Boeing now, maybe they're just being dicks.

I'd write your CP and suggest you get the proper type rating on your licence. I'm not a fan of dealing with management in general, but A.B. is a guy I have a lot of time for, you might get a good answer... what's it to them how they sign it off if you're completing the same footprint? It doesn't cost any less on the application.

[PostmasterGeneral]

That's a downer.

I know we went to a short course briefly maybe 5 or so years ago to reduce training footprints, but I understood we were back to the full FO course for RPs.

If you do a full course with a group 1 ride on the MTV and an LOE, it should be a full type rating.

Is it just some checkers are signing it off that way? or is it policy now? I know some of the "nazi youth" have made their way up to the big Boeing now, maybe they're just being dicks.

I'd write your CP and suggest you get the proper type rating on your licence. I'm not a fan of dealing with management in general, but A.B. is a guy I have a lot of time for, you might get a good answer... what's it to them how they sign it off if you're completing the same footprint? It doesn't cost any less on the application.

I think it comes down to the fact that you are “locked” to AC with the CRP designation so you can’t bugger off to Asia.

[altiplano]

Perhaps.

But I don't think that has happened previously, at least not very many times. Besides, a new hire could go FO on any aircraft here almost immediately anyway if getting a type or 2 and leaving was their only goal in coming to AC.

I suspect it's some guy marking it that way because he figures he can... or maybe that's what a TC guy said to someone on a monitored ride and it stuck. I don't really know though.

[jpilot77]

Did the full course on the 87 it was an RP rating.

[losercruiser]

Because after spending a decade to get to AC I'm gonna take my 777/787 rating and run to China

Surely the cost benefit of having everyone be FO qualified outweighs the handful of people who *might* leave... But really how many might that be, %1 of all RPs?

Sometimes I feel like people in management have no reason to be there other than some fancy letters by their name or nepotism.

[groundpilot]

Pretty sure this is a Transport Canada thing and has more to do with the follow up line indoc training. Under some reg which I did find one time ago - states essentially that the sim training must match the intent of the flying.

I was one Cat III approach away from the exact same training as my FO counterpart. It is ridiculous but I don't think this is AC's fault.

China isn't a factor IMO.

[losercruiser]

Yes you are probably right.

A solution? Get rid of the RP position completely.

No other major Airline other than what... Cathay uses RPs.

[DBC]

The initial 787 RPs had their license changed from full Type Rating to Cruise Relief only sometime in early 2017. I can't find the email with the actual justification right now but it was definitely a TC thing.

[twa22]

Slightly off topic, but I'm really curious, how does an RP log hours if they aren't fully type rated?

I ask because the cruise relief type rating that is described at AC sounds exactly like Cathay Pacific's type rating... You do full training as if you were being type rated as an FO but then once you're done they stamp a "cruise relief only" rating... Presumably for some of the same reasons, so one doesn't go there, get a 777 type rating then leave right away.

At CX, RPs (Or SO as they call them) log hours under a P2X category, which is something our Canadian log books don't have (or the rest of the world either). They have P1 for pic, P2 for co-pilot, and then this misterious P2X that the Hong Kong aviation authorities designate as SO time, which apparently is useless time that doesn't count as real hours anywhere in the world... Where as here, I'm assuming that an RP just simply logs their time under co-pilot whenever they are behind the controls during cruise

The RP position at AC sounds identical to the SO position at CX, so I can't understand why an SO from CX that has say 3000 hours of P2X time (or RP time, whatever that even means) on a 777, could not directly apply to AC for an identical position, given they already have a cruise relief type rating on a 777... And why an AC RP log the hours as (presumably) co-pilot, when the job is the exactly the same at CX... I know that we are talking about two different governing bodies here, TC and HKCAD, but it just doesn't make sense

I'm sorry for the tangent, but I'm genuinely curious since I did interview for the SO position at CX, and this cruise relief time would have been a big impedent since it basically meant you were stuck at CX for 7-10 years...

Also, please let's just stick to the question at hand, I am not trying to turn this thread into why CX is bad and so on... I did not get the job and I happily work for a Canadian company as an FO at this time

I also tried TC with no response so I'm hoping maybe someone can enlighten me

Cheers

[losercruiser]

Slightly off topic, but I'm really curious, how does an RP log hours if they aren't fully type rated?

I ask because the cruise relief type rating that is described at AC sounds exactly like Cathay Pacific's type rating... You do full training as if you were being type rated as an FO but then once you're done they stamp a "cruise relief only" rating... Presumably for some of the same reasons, so one doesn't go there, get a 777 type rating then leave right away.

At CX, RPs (Or SO as they call them) log hours under a P2X category, which is something our Canadian log books don't have (or the rest of the world either). They have P1 for pic, P2 for co-pilot, and then this misterious P2X that the Hong Kong aviation authorities designate as SO time, which apparently is useless time that doesn't count as real hours anywhere in the world... Where as here, I'm assuming that an RP just simply logs their time under co-pilot whenever they are behind the controls during cruise

The RP position at AC sounds identical to the SO position at CX, so I can't understand why an SO from CX that has say 3000 hours of P2X time (or RP time, whatever that even means) on a 777, could not directly apply to AC for an identical position, given they already have a cruise relief type rating on a 777... And why an AC RP log the hours as (presumably) co-pilot, when the job is the exactly the same at CX... I know that we are talking about two different governing bodies here, TC and HKCAD, but it just doesn't make sense

I'm sorry for the tangent, but I'm genuinely curious since I did interview for the SO position at CX, and this cruise relief time would have been a big impedent since it basically meant you were stuck at CX for 7-10 years...

Also, please let's just stick to the question at hand, I am not trying to turn this thread into why CX is bad and so on... I did not get the job and I happily work for a Canadian company as an FO at this time

I also tried TC with no response so I'm hoping maybe someone can enlighten me

Cheers

I log 1:1 SIC but really, it doesn't matter. I don't plan on leaving Air Canada and logging hours has stopped mattering since the day I was hired.


To answer the OP question, when I was new I was reserve for about 6 months. Passed on many things, worked 1-2 trips a month and was picky.

Jr block holder expect 9-12 days a month depending on 777/787. Honestly for flat pay years it's the best gig there is for lifestyle. If your want to chase money go 319/767 Rouge.

[flyinhigh]

What would the average 5 - 10 year RP make?

I don't know why you would want to hold such position with that seniority, but the lifestyle would be amazing.

[98 Corolla]

If you are on flat pay and senior on your position can you just bid reserve and pass on everything? If you hold a block on flat pay are you essentially just working for per diems and maybe the chance of some overtime?

[losercruiser]

If you are on flat pay and senior on your position can you just bid reserve and pass on everything? If you hold a block on flat pay are you essentially just working for per diems and maybe the chance of some overtime?

Yes you can pass on everything. But if you are reserve and pass, you won't be getting any draft. The days off don't really work for it.

When I was on reserve I just did other jobs on the side and made more money than I would have gotten getting a few hundred bucks in per diems....

[losercruiser]

What would the average 5 - 10 year RP make?

I don't know why you would want to hold such position with that seniority, but the lifestyle would be amazing.

5 is about 100k. Goes up modestly from there but not at the same rates as FO jumps.

You could pretty easily make 150k if you were senior, did 3 trips and a draft per month.

[897]

If you are on flat pay and senior on your position can you just bid reserve and pass on everything? If you hold a block on flat pay are you essentially just working for per diems and maybe the chance of some overtime?

As losercruiser said in effect yes. But there’s got to be someone below you on reserve legal to do it or you get stuck with it.

Don’t know if I’d go that far on the block comment, but Im not a fan of being on call. It Depends on what we are blocked at in a month. We are guaranteed 75 hours on flat pay. Work less, we still get paid 75 hours. Work more, get your flat pay plus your hourly rate above 75 hours. There was one month I passed most stuff on reserve, pay check was definitely thinner without the couple hundred a day in Asian per diems. Did get a bunch done around the house though.