British Pilot for AC?

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Windsheargo
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British Pilot for AC?

Post by Windsheargo »

Hi guys,

I’m a British airline pilot currently flying for a large holiday airline in the UK as an FO on the 737 NG/MAX.
My wife is Canadian and we’re considering a move to Canada. I’m an ex UK military pilot with approx 5000 hours with over 3000 heavy multi engine hours.
I’ve looked at the hours requirements for AC and I’m very tempted to apply. I’m wondering if there’s anyone out there that’s made the same move as I’m considering?
What is the salary like for an FO for Air Canada on the 737 and what is the rosters/lifestyle like?
Any info would be gratefully received.
Thanks.
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by Daniel Cooper »

First year 737 FO's are currently making $50,450 CAD per year (28,750 GBP).
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Rowdy
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by Rowdy »

Currently the 737 MAX is not flying. I may be wrong, but it is unlikely new hires will be offered positions on it until after it is flying again. You will be assigned an aircraft and position and base in your initial ground school.

Dependant on Type and base, you can expect a very mixed bag. Most likely reserve for a few months. Especially if assigned a WB FO position.

AC pays the same pay regardless of type for the first four years.

Welcome to Canada!
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jpilot77
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by jpilot77 »

Be aware that you may not end up on the 737, depends where they need guys. With your time and experience I think you would have a great shot at AC. Also you may end up based either in Vancouver, Toronto or Montreal.
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plhought
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by plhought »

You would be competitive for Air Canada with your hours/experience.

Your military time will be highly regarded.

If you can stomach the four year flat pay, and the risk of reserve, and the other things discussed across the forum ad nauseam - you are well placed for a decent shot at Air Canada.

Other posters mentioned above, you don't get hired onto a specific type at Air Canada - I'll let other more knowledgeable people talk about "course-rights" and the initial hire stuff when it comes to types. Give an Airbus a shot - you get a table!! :lol:

Of course, make sure you got all your immigration ducks-in-order so you have the right to work in Canada, and get a RAIC (get proof of where you lived in UK for last while, UK police checks, "Certificates of good conduct" - that kind of thing).
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altiplano
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by altiplano »

Unless you really botch the interview or fail the medical, with your military and airline experience you will get hired.

Get your Canadian ATPL if you haven't already...

The four year fixed rates aside, with the chance to go on any type at the airline when you're formula pay kicks in, or the opportunity to take an upgrade within the first few years and get on formula pay early, you can get into a high paying position quicker than you ever have at this airline in the past... 777 FO year 5 is a 200K job.... or 320 CA year 3 is a 200K+ job... so that's not bad... good benefits, pension, stock program, profit share...

Plan 15-16 days a month on narrowbodies, 15-18 days a month on widebodies as a junior pilot. Senior pilots on most types/bases can work blocks less than 10 days.

Reserve is 12.25 days off/month, 30 or 31 days in each block month. I've been on Reserve and passed all the flying for entire months and not turned a wheel... days off without beer I've heard them called. But if you're the junior guy, reserve can really suck, you lose control of what you can get... commuting on reserve from off base isn't ideal either.

Good thing is there are choices. Don't like your seat or schedule? want to be senior or junior? Bid something else. We are somewhat limited in the number of times we can change seats, but you will have the ability to bid almost any FO/RP seat in YYZ/YUL/YVR, in your first year, if you don't like what you get on your initial course. Hiring/retirements are going like crazy, so there are a lot of choices.

I've never been particularly senior in any seat I've been in at the airline and I've had a few blocks that I hated, but by far the lifestyle has been great and it keeps getting better, and the paycheques keep getting bigger!

Good luck.
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altiplano
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by altiplano »

Daniel Cooper wrote:
Sun Dec 15, 2019 9:55 am
First year 737 FO's are currently making $50,450 CAD per year (28,750 GBP).
Not completely accurate.

They are not "making" that, they are guaranteed that (75 hour/mo) flying pay in the first year.

Although, since nobody is flying on the 737, opportunity for more pay/premiums on the flying side are not available as would be typical.

But, they are also making another 20 or so hours of training pay.
They are getting a profit share probably around $7-8K.
Year 1 pilots are getting 6% paid by the company into their pension.
Possibly another 3.3% if participating in the employee stock program.
Plus they are getting full benefit package/insurance/disability etc all paid.

Still, it's not enough. The #1 response from members on the recent survey was to get our pay, including the 4 year flat, going the right direction in 2020 contract reopener. Stolen from our members by Raitt/Harper/Rovinescu collusion and an incompetent, treasonous TA1 NC in 2012.
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losercruiser
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by losercruiser »

Base pay is actually $54.054. Not that it's much better. Based on 75 a month, no per diems. Profit share will be around $6-10k depending on how fucked we are by the 737 grounding. Realistically you'll make between $60-70k year one with profit share and not factoring per diems.

Best job as a new hire is to go to Rouge. As much as I fucking hate that it exists.

Most rosters are blocked around 50-60 credits but you get the 77.5 guarantee. For 8-13 days a month (767/323). Do a few drafts a month and it's pretty easy to pull over 120-130 credits paid out while still only working 15 days or less.

Alternatively, you could get forced onto the 787 as an FO and sit on reserve for the next decade. Take home on reserve with no flying or very minimal flying is under $4000/mo. Have fun.
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losercruiser
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by losercruiser »

altiplano wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:10 am

Still, it's not enough. The #1 response from members on the recent survey was to get our pay, including the 4 year flat, going the right direction in 2020 contract reopener. Stolen from our members by Raitt/Harper/Rovinescu collusion and an incompetent, treasonous TA1 NC in 2012.
I'll believe it when I see the new negots committee members. My guess, all old boys club with connections. If there is even one person on the team who's been at AC less than 4 years I'll eat my shirt.
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Windsheargo
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by Windsheargo »

Hi guys,

Thanks to all for the detailed replies and PMs. Really useful stuff. Interesting to hear that the company pension contributions seems less than what most large airlines in the uk contribute - currently get 10% from the company for a 3.5% personal contribution.

Aside from that it sounds similar to the uk although the overall pay seems slightly higher.

Some of you touched on it and it sounds like it’s fleet dependent but what is the current wait time for command? Is it purely seniority based?

Also do you need to speak French fluently to be able to apply (couldn’t see it as a requirement on the careers website).

Thanks again.
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losercruiser
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by losercruiser »

Windsheargo wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:34 pm
Hi guys,

Thanks to all for the detailed replies and PMs. Really useful stuff. Interesting to hear that the company pension contributions seems less than what most large airlines in the uk contribute - currently get 10% from the company for a 3.5% personal contribution.

Aside from that it sounds similar to the uk although the overall pay seems slightly higher.

Some of you touched on it and it sounds like it’s fleet dependent but what is the current wait time for command? Is it purely seniority based?

Also do you need to speak French fluently to be able to apply (couldn’t see it as a requirement on the careers website).

Thanks again.
French not required. You can be based in Montreal and get away fine with English.

Currently around two years to command on the 320/737. A220 is currently going fairly senior by about a year and a half on top of that because of "shiny new jet" syndrome.

All seniority based. Once (if) the max comes back you can probably get on that as an FO and within 6 months have 30-50 new hires below you and have a pretty good schedule.

I'd say apply and see what happens.
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altiplano
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by altiplano »

Windsheargo wrote:
Tue Dec 17, 2019 9:34 pm
Hi guys,

Thanks to all for the detailed replies and PMs. Really useful stuff. Interesting to hear that the company pension contributions seems less than what most large airlines in the uk contribute - currently get 10% from the company for a 3.5% personal contribution.

Aside from that it sounds similar to the uk although the overall pay seems slightly higher.

Some of you touched on it and it sounds like it’s fleet dependent but what is the current wait time for command? Is it purely seniority based?

Also do you need to speak French fluently to be able to apply (couldn’t see it as a requirement on the careers website).

Thanks again.
After year 1-2 employer contribution goes up. I think it is hits 10.5% at year 5. The pension is a life long guaranteed pay "Target Benefit Plan"... you'll never run out of money...

Command is seniority dependant, and of course being able to do the job and pass the upgrade.

Junior left seats are in YYZ. Basically similar seniority band give or take at the bottom on all narrow body types - EMJ/220/737/320. I'd guess the junior guys just getting it are about 2 years at the company.

That's current. But things change. In the near past an Airbus 320 left seat was closer to 10 years. That said. We're showing 800 or so pilots short, and have over a hundred retiring every year. Then again there's the Transat purchase, who knows how that will land.

French is NOT a requirement. But if you had French, you would REALLY be a slam dunk to get hired. If you can speak it even conversationally, I'd put it on there. They love that.

Good luck.
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Daniel Cooper
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by Daniel Cooper »

altiplano wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:10 am
Not completely accurate.

They are not "making" that, they are guaranteed that (75 hour/mo) flying pay in the first year.

I thought they were currently getting 70 hours a month?
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iflyroads
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by iflyroads »

Daniel Cooper wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:00 am
altiplano wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:10 am
Not completely accurate.

They are not "making" that, they are guaranteed that (75 hour/mo) flying pay in the first year.

I thought they were currently getting 70 hours a month?

77.5 guarantee at rouge
75 guarantee at ML
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TheStig
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by TheStig »

MAX Captains are currently being paid 70/month and FO's 75/month
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altiplano
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by altiplano »

Daniel Cooper wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:00 am
altiplano wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:10 am
Not completely accurate.

They are not "making" that, they are guaranteed that (75 hour/mo) flying pay in the first year.

I thought they were currently getting 70 hours a month?
The question was 1st year.

FO & RP in first 4 years are guaranteed 75 at Mainline, 77.5 at the BSLCC.
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Dry Guy
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by Dry Guy »

altiplano wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:14 am
777 FO year 5 is a 200K job....
How's that? The pay rate is $150/hr. You would have to do over 1300 hours per year.
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altiplano
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by altiplano »

Dry Guy wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:56 pm
altiplano wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:14 am
777 FO year 5 is a 200K job....
How's that? The pay rate is $150/hr. You would have to do over 1300 hours per year.
More like $160/hour, 5th year 777 FO, 1/2 Day/Night flying overseas.

But I said it's a $200K job, not just straight time flying pay, total remuneration, your flying pay is the bulk, but all the other lines on your stub fill it up. I know several 777 FOs over $200K.
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Dry Guy
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by Dry Guy »

Oh I thought we were talking about salary.
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altiplano
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by altiplano »

Dry Guy wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:56 pm
altiplano wrote:
Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:14 am
777 FO year 5 is a 200K job....
How's that? The pay rate is $150/hr. You would have to do over 1300 hours per year.
Here you go... posted this time last year by another forum member when someone didn't believe 777 FO was a $200K+ job.

Sure year 12 vs. year 5, but this one is $250K with no ESOP either...
This is a typical 12 year pay B777 pay stub. Some B777 FOs are slightly higher because they are on "grandfathered" pay from the previous contract.

This year end stub reflects a November YYZ-HKG overtime trip and another OT trip earlier in the year. Those that do a lot of overtime can make a lot more.

pay stub dec 2018crop.jpg
pay stub dec 2018crop.jpg
pay stub dec 2018crop.jpg (212.98 KiB) Viewed 1324 times
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Last edited by altiplano on Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

altiplano
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by altiplano »

Dry Guy wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:18 pm
Oh I thought we were talking about salary.
I think we are. Flying pay is only one component though.
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Jean-Pierre
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by Jean-Pierre »

Imagine making $24300 a month and only pocketing $11700 of it.
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by Skyhunter »

See the part that says 4000 advance........

He would have got about 3500 take home from that on the first of the month and the 11 700 on the 17th for a total of 15200 take home for the month.
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altiplano
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by altiplano »

Jean-Pierre wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:10 pm
Imagine making $24300 a month and only pocketing $11700 of it.
You should see the April 17 cheque when we get profit share and ESOP match on top of our regular cheque. The amount of deductions is painful.
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Re: British Pilot for AC?

Post by schnitzel2k3 »

altiplano wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:50 pm
Jean-Pierre wrote:
Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:10 pm
Imagine making $24300 a month and only pocketing $11700 of it.
You should see the April 17 cheque when we get profit share and ESOP match on top of our regular cheque. The amount of deductions is painful.
Hey Altiplano,

How many days per month are guys active to earn that type of salary @ yr 12, and in yr 5 how hard would you be working to get close to 200K? How many days away from home? I see there is draft and overtime paid out, curious how many extra days that would add to a typical 777 FO sched.

Genuinely curious.

Thanks,

S.
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