Coronavirus Numbers

[ayseven]

I am only going to comment one more time, I promise: people die of all sorts of things, all related to each other. Cancer victims whose cause of death was heart failure etc. I have seen it. The fact is that everything in our bodies is interrelated. Sometimes there is no simple answer, but this is a hard pill for a lot of people to swallow.

[altiplano]

Apparently doctors and nurses are being asked to link all possible covid deaths to the virus. I'm sure there are some that are not being linked, but I'm equally sure there are many that are.

A few questions:
1. Do you have a source for this claim, and if so, is it credible?
Yup.

2. Where do the authorities have the ability to dictate a pre-determined diagnosis to a qualified and licensed medical professional? And if it's the Chinese, how does that square with claims that they are systematically under-reporting the outbreak? In Canada. Not so much dictating as linking as much as possible to covid even if it's completely secondary, or not even suspected to the reason they are in, check and link it. Everyone getting a CT/MR is getting lungs done too. Check and link, it certainly boosts the numbers...

3. Why do you think this is being done? In other words, who stands to benefit, and why?
I don't know. Just what 2 people have told me, both working in healthcare. Maybe they want to link it so they can justify the response? Maybe it's for their stats? Maybe it's for transmission mitigation? I could only speculate. But it's boosting the numbers.

[Inverted2]

I think a lot of people are starting to question this whole lockdown nonsense. They are way over reporting deaths linked to coronavirus. The local news said 3 people died from it yesterday. All people in their 90's. How many are dying from suicide or substance abuse caused by all the upheaval in our lives? Never hear of normal flu deaths anymore. They're all considered covid......

Or maybe there’s no such thing as Covid 19 and this is just an elaborate Marxist plot to redistribute wealth?

Come on people...

Well I don’t know anyone or anyone who knows anyone who has become sick with this disease. I do know this is going to destroy our economy. Judging by what I see most people aren’t self isolating anyway. We work in the airline industry and are going to feel the worst of this.

[goldeneagle]

Apparently doctors and nurses are being asked to link all possible covid deaths to the virus.

This is the kind of outright bullshit that one person dreams up, 10 more repeat, and eventually everybody takes it as a fact.

Just an fyi, nurses do not determine cause of death, that's up to a doctor signing the death certificate. Docs that fib on that are putting license to practice medicine at risk by doing so.

You need to go back to flying airplanes, or to quote your own favorite saying 'STAY IN YOUR OWN FUCKING LANE'.

[propfeather]

Someone mentioned Sweden?
This data only goes to Apr. 18th but it paints a picture.

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[altiplano]

Apparently doctors and nurses are being asked to link all possible covid deaths to the virus.

This is the kind of outright bullshit that one person dreams up, 10 more repeat, and eventually everybody takes it as a fact.

Just an fyi, nurses do not determine cause of death, that's up to a doctor signing the death certificate. Docs that fib on that are putting license to practice medicine at risk by doing so.

You need to go back to flying airplanes, or to quote your own favorite saying 'STAY IN YOUR OWN FUCKING LANE'.

Blow me. I know what I heard. 1 rad, 1 nurse. 2 different provinces.

[Jimmyh787]

I hope this video helps resolve the dispute. Describes the process quite clearly.

[YouTube]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zYUExBc1ijU[/YouTube]

[Rockie]

You know what a gross navigational check is Altiplano. Time to lean back, take a good look around and ask yourself if what you’ve been told makes the slightest damn bit of sense.

['97 Tercel]

Hahaha...like anyone here really knows anything about the virus...

We're all such intransigent, type 'A' know-it-all's in this industry.

......................^ (thanks for my new fav word Fanblade)

[Eric Janson]

The apocalyptic fear-mongering and breathless conspiratorial hints of your comments is beneath you. You're playing to the Zerohedge crowd. I understand the seductive appeal of such theories reducing complicated things into simple binary solutions, it's the foundation of pretty much all social media and resulting polarization of politics and society. But I didn't really expect it from an airline pilot, a profession I perhaps incorrectly, tend to hold to a higher standard of critical thought.

If you want a fascinating series about money try "The Ascent of Money" by Niall Ferguson - the BBC doc, not the book. It'll give you some context on the ever-popular mythology surrounding the Rothschilds. It's no secret there are ultra-rich families and conglomerates that exert disproportionate influence around the globe. Canada itself is basically a country founded by robber barons whose descendants and successors continue to run it today. And...? Human nature is not a conspiracy.

The BoC is separate from the "Government" as a Crown corporation by intent, as an attempt to reduce political meddling in economic policy. Same as the US Federal Reserve. The central banks set economic policy, the politicians set fiscal policy. How effective that separation is, you can decide for yourself. It certainly helps to have strong leadership, I happen to think the last truly brilliant governor was David Dodge.

If you're going to predict a possible "collapse of the entire Financial System", you're going to have to define what you mean by that term. It's generic to the point of being meaningless. We were far closer to a collapse in 2008 with a near-total seizure of liquidity. THAT was a "Financial System" crisis. The coronavirus is a medical/health crisis, which is a crucial difference. Of course it is having massive economic consequences, idling much of the world's economy. It's certainly highlighted the weaknesses of globalization with regards to supply chains (particular the folly of relying heavily on a totalitarian regime for many vital supplies), but that same coordination of global central banks is ironically probably the best defence against said "collapse".

I'm not downplaying the economic seriousness of coronavirus. But an outlook that only predicts failure is not balanced.

@Complexintentions

You're reading an awful lot into my post.

The intention was to provide education for people that wanted to learn more with a few simple starting points.

- We do have a debt based monetary system.
- Banks operate using Fractional Reserve Banking.
- The Bank of Canada is a private banking cartel (as are all Central Banks).
- The Rothschilds are an interesting family to research. I made no claims about them.

All of the above is factual information - not sure where the "breathless conspiratorial hints of your comments" are.

I encourage people to do their own research and learn to think for themselves instead being told what to think.

I appreciate the Niall Ferguson info - I'll certainly be watching that.

I don't agree that things were worse in 2008. I don't recall the entire Aviation Industry collapsing and negative oil prices back then. The current situation is unprecedented and Government isn't going to be able to continue wage subsidies indefinitely. Increasing numbers of Airlines are not planning any large scale resumption of service until 2021.

[YYZSaabGuy]

The intention was to provide education for people that wanted to learn more with a few simple starting points.

- We do have a debt based monetary system.
- Banks operate using Fractional Reserve Banking.
- The Bank of Canada is a private banking cartel (as are all Central Banks).

Well:
1. I'm not sure what you mean by a "debt based monetary system", but the reality is that all monetary systems are debt-based. I'm not sure what the alternative is, unless you want to spend your life walking around with gold bars in your pocket to pay for stuff.
2. Fractional reserve banking is in widespread use because nobody has come up with a decent alternative. Full reserve banking means that banks retain 100% of depositors' money on hand, ready for immediate withdrawal on demand. Which is terrific, unless you're looking to fund any project or expenditure on other than a demand basis, i.e. over longer than a 24-hour timeframe. Good luck buying a car, or a house, or running a business.
3. The Bank of Canada is not a "private banking cartel that controls the money in Canada", whatever that means. It's a Crown Corporation, with a Governor and Senior Deputy Governor appointed by the independent directors with the approval of the federal Cabinet for a seven-year term to allow for a level of independence from the politicians and to "...adopt the medium- and longer-term perspective essential to conducting effective monetary policy." https://www.bankofcanada.ca/about/

Despite what certain conspiracy-oriented websites would have you believe, this is all pretty standard and well-accepted stuff, and it seems to work reasonably well. But, like you, I encourage people to do their own research and learn to think for themselves instead being told what to think.

[2R]

Chewing through the mega data about this crisis to get to the cause will require several super computers just to get the data that is relevant. The Brits have chucked out the data from China as it is not reliable or to be trusted.
Basic Garbage in , Garbage out statistics .

The original virus , blood and tissue samples were destroyed which is highly suspicious ,if true . Looks worse when you consider that lab that was acquiring and storing nasty virus's and pathogens from all over the world . For them to destroy the first samples does not look good for them. At best it is bad scientific protacol , at worst it is covering up a criminal act . By whom ? A mad criminal scientist ?

Looking in my crystal ball , I cannot see their future .

[RippleRock]

According to current data updated daily.


https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... ry/canada/


Active Cases in Canada as of April 27th.
27,612
Currently Infected Patients
27,055 (98%)
in Mild Condition

557 (2%)
Serious or Critical

Deaths per million in Canada = 72

The statistics show that the entire population has experienced a death rate of 1 to 0.000072 or .0072%

Given that the demographic on the victims, with the vast majority over 65, the chances of the young or healthy dying are----you figure it out---- but you would be wasting your time.

Continue the hysteria if you like.

[Rockie]

The only panic and hysteria I see is from people like you, when what’s desperately needed here is patience, careful planning and adequate preparation. In an open society this thing grew from nothing to a pandemic in a few short months. What do you think it’ll do with the head start it has now if we aren’t exceedingly careful?

[2R]

What would the numbers have been without the pandemic precautions and quarantine ?

Lift the lockdowns too soon and we can party like it's is Marseille in 1720 .

Quarantine is the only effective tool that has historically worked for plagues that have no cure or vaccines .

Sorry ,
Rockie but I have to agree with you ( today only buddy )

[Rockie]

No problem 2R, I won’t hold you to it in the future.

[Fanblade]

What would the numbers have been without the pandemic precautions and quarantine ?

Lift the lockdowns too soon and we can party like it's is Marseille in 1720 .

Quarantine is the only effective tool that has historically worked for plagues that have no cure or vaccines .

Sorry ,
Rockie but I have to agree with you ( today only buddy )

Ripple Rock aside. It’s not like anyone disagrees with Rockie. Ugg did I say that out loud. The problem is what if there is no vaccine? There are many MD’s that believe a vaccine is unlikely. We have never been successful in producing a corona vaccine. This will be a first if we accomplish it. Corona virus’s also mutate quickly. Next fall people who already have had Covid will probably not be immune to the mutated version. Nor will a vaccine likely keep up with mutations. Plus corona vaccines we have come up with to date have had very sever immune reactions. Dangerously so.

The good news is that Corona virus’s become less virulent as they mutate. Over time we get partial immunity for versions we catch. Eventually Covid will become a common cold. This is the usual/normal path of a corona virus.

So this is the what if. We are not used to this in our world of modern medicine. We are having trouble accepting that we might not be able to do anything about this. If there isn’t a vaccine, the solution becomes to manage the virus through the population at a controlled rate. As it moves through the population immunity will develop and Covid will become less virulent as it mutates. Yes people will die.

This is where much of the difference of opinion comes from medical professionals. If there is no vaccine and we shelter in place we will only delay the inevitable. You don’t stop it.

Clearly if a vaccine can be 1) produced, 2) Safe, and 3)Doesn’t get quickly rendered useless through mutations, then it would be the preferred choice. If 1 or 2 or 3 become futile then we have no choice but to allow Covid to take its natural course. Yes that means a high mortality rate for a few years.

This is a very real possibility. Some health professionals like the two doctors on the other page are already there. Most aren’t. At least not yet. But don’t kid yourself. No vaccine is a very real possibility. Time will tell if our good intentioned intervention through shelter in place was misguided. If this turns out to be the case we will have to start relaxing the rules in an effort to manage the spread of the virus.

All of us waiting for our turn.

I have learned that Doctors are like pilots. Ask 100 of them their opinion on this and they will all respond differently. They will all be right too.

Fact is they are just shooting from the hip. They don’t know either.

[RippleRock]

The only panic and hysteria I see is from people like you, when what’s desperately needed here is patience, careful planning and adequate preparation. In an open society this thing grew from nothing to a pandemic in a few short months. What do you think it’ll do with the head start it has now if we aren’t exceedingly careful?

Yes, I'm hysterical.

If quoting and believing real statistical facts has made me so, perhaps we should modify the definition a bit to encompass it.

Let's continue to treat it like a worldwide outbreak of Ebola, German Measles, Smallpox, Polio or the Bubonic Plague if it makes everyone sleep better.

[North Shore]

I have learned that Doctors are like pilots. Ask 100 of them their opinion on this and they will all respond differently. They will all be right too.

Fact is they are just shooting from the hip. They don’t know either.

At least their opinion is formed by several years of intense education on the subject, unlike ours here...

[Rockie]

It’s not like anyone disagrees with Rockie. Ugg did I say that out loud.

You did and now it’s too late, I’m getting all teary.