How to get rid of ACPA?

[YesMassaPayson]

How to get rid of ACPA?

I would say this is probably step 1:
www.pilotsforchange.ca

Massa Payson

[iflyroads]

I don't believe the airline will drastically change its overall crew requirements on the next bid, rather shuffle a few positions between types, as it need to maintain flexibility and the ability to recover should the market recover (to the airlines own forecast of 70-80% pre-covid) next summer. That was the focus of the last bid and will remain the objective.

a reduction in mainline bus for an increase in rouge bus is the plan.

or just Rouge coloured planes flown by Mainline pilots. Easier.

Would have to get around the separate OC and seperate company issues that currently plague that plan.

[Fanblade]

How to get rid of ACPA?

I would say this is probably step 1:
www.pilotsforchange.ca

Massa Payson

It looks like their plan is to get the ALPA merger back on track. The ALPA merger that was derailed by the current MEC. The Transat merger was an opportunistic excuse.

I can easily support this movement.

Koodos to the leaders.

I thought we would get an opportunity to vote ACPA into left field with the Transat merger. That looks like it won't happen. The only other way is a card drive to force a vote.

[altiplano]

It takes a leadership group with some integrity to sense the will of the membership and lead on something like that. The current majority doesn't have that integrity in my opinion.

[Mrbobmarly111]

So ALPA westjet was unable to block Swoop taking over Mainline routes and moving into YYZ soon.... and you still think Air Canada wants them? I promise you 90% of AC pilots dont want a change to "Magic" ALPA. Truth is AC should have a vote and put this whole thing to rest.

[fish4life]

So ALPA westjet was unable to block Swoop taking over Mainline routes and moving into YYZ soon.... and you still think Air Canada wants them? I promise you 90% of AC pilots dont want a change to "Magic" ALPA. Truth is AC should have a vote and put this whole thing to rest.

I believe that was part of the initial contract arbitration

[Torontomaplelaughs]

So ALPA westjet was unable to block Swoop taking over Mainline routes and moving into YYZ soon.... and you still think Air Canada wants them? I promise you 90% of AC pilots dont want a change to "Magic" ALPA. Truth is AC should have a vote and put this whole thing to rest.

Agreed.

There is a contrarian movement in the works - “Pilots Against Change”

Should get interesting

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl-CHRGnd6E

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zYPbxbI7ETM&t=26s

[Sharklasers]

So ALPA westjet was unable to block Swoop taking over Mainline routes and moving into YYZ soon.... and you still think Air Canada wants them? I promise you 90% of AC pilots dont want a change to "Magic" ALPA. Truth is AC should have a vote and put this whole thing to rest.

Agreed, there is a forum echo chamber of primarily junior pilots who think we should have been able to get through this pandemic completely unscathed or that we should have laid off senior ‘expensive’ pilots out of seniority and that magic ALPA could get us back the DB, kill rouge, ect. These 10% are the loudest and a lot of them are currently unemployed.

[Daniel Cooper]

Oh please, nobody said that.

[Ratherbe]

The results of the third phase survey just came out and it looks like those looking for a change are a small minority. Also, looks like pilot sentiment is to avoid negotiating a new contract so no open period for a raid.

The AC forum is clearly a place for the lunatics to feel a sense of belonging. Too bad it spilled over here. Of course one of their leaders was encouraging participation on this forum. I’m glad ACPA posted the results. Time to focus on making things better not worse.

[flashheart]

The results of the third phase survey just came out and it looks like those looking for a change are a small minority. Also, looks like pilot sentiment is to avoid negotiating a new contract so no open period for a raid.

The AC forum is clearly a place for the lunatics to feel a sense of belonging. Too bad it spilled over here. Of course one of their leaders was encouraging participation on this forum. I’m glad ACPA posted the results. Time to focus on making things better not worse.

#pilotsagainstchange !!

Because if it isn't broken, why fix it?

[Sharklasers]

The results of the third phase survey just came out and it looks like those looking for a change are a small minority. Also, looks like pilot sentiment is to avoid negotiating a new contract so no open period for a raid.

The AC forum is clearly a place for the lunatics to feel a sense of belonging. Too bad it spilled over here. Of course one of their leaders was encouraging participation on this forum. I’m glad ACPA posted the results. Time to focus on making things better not worse.

#pilotsagainstchange !!

Because if it isn't broken, why fix it?

If it ain’t broke don’t blow it up.


P4c proposes sweeping changes to governance, representation and a complete change of union. Pretty strong demands from a resounding minority of pilots.
Pretty rich considering we have already seen what some of these guys are capable of during FOS.

[YesMassaPayson]

Time to focus on making things better not worse.

Yes because who needs oversight, good governance, vast resources, and unity with 63000 of their peers. #pilotsgainstchange

[Captnflex]

[quot/
Yes because who needs oversight, good governance, vast resources, and unity with 63000 of their peers. #pilotsgainstchange
[/quote]

Oversight from who? Westjet pilots? or Transat pilots or oversight from big brother in the USA?

or do you mean oversight from the membership as power to recall elected officials?

How far the ''unity experience'' with the College of pilots went?

There is no magic solution...change will always be in the hands of the membership if there is a will to do it.

[flashheart]

The results of the third phase survey just came out and it looks like those looking for a change are a small minority. Also, looks like pilot sentiment is to avoid negotiating a new contract so no open period for a raid.

The AC forum is clearly a place for the lunatics to feel a sense of belonging. Too bad it spilled over here. Of course one of their leaders was encouraging participation on this forum. I’m glad ACPA posted the results. Time to focus on making things better not worse.

#pilotsagainstchange !!

Because if it isn't broken, why fix it?

If it ain’t broke don’t blow it up.


P4c proposes sweeping changes to governance, representation and a complete change of union. Pretty strong demands from a resounding minority of pilots.
Pretty rich considering we have already seen what some of these guys are capable of during FOS.

Pretty sure that is not the saying.

But I agree. Too radical wanting things to improve. ACPA has been leading the way in its methods of communications and governance. I'm sure other pilots around the North America ask themselves - "Why can't we have ACPA too"

[Ratherbe]

Hey Flash
After viewing the p4c website and the stupid parody "pilots against change" it makes me want to change my survey answers supporting junior pilots and get back to 85 hours.
My initial reaction is that you guys don't deserve to be airline pilots. The senior guys that mentored me years ago would be shocked at your arrogance.
However, I trust you are part of the usual small minority that always causes more harm than good.
I won't change my mind yet about mitigating layoffs but honestly don't you realize we won't get anywhere fighting amongst ourselves?

[disco]

Hey Flash
After viewing the p4c website and the stupid parody "pilots against change" it makes me want to change my survey answers supporting junior pilots and get back to 85 hours.
My initial reaction is that you guys don't deserve to be airline pilots. The senior guys that mentored me years ago would be shocked at your arrogance.
However, I trust you are part of the usual small minority that always causes more harm than good.
I won't change my mind yet about mitigating layoffs but honestly don't you realize we won't get anywhere fighting amongst ourselves?

Ratherbee, what a great deal of condescension. If the senior guys you refer to see this initiative as arrogance rather than the misguided leadership that ACPA has demonstrated, well, they aren't the senior guys most of us should be looking to for advice. It seems you may be well acquainted with arrogance generally. Arrogance, is deciding what is best for the membership, failing to seek any of your constituents outlook and bargaining an MOA that provides concessions in exchange for untested and unlikely quid pro quo.

[planebored]

Hey Flash
After viewing the p4c website and the stupid parody "pilots against change" it makes me want to change my survey answers supporting junior pilots and get back to 85 hours.
My initial reaction is that you guys don't deserve to be airline pilots. The senior guys that mentored me years ago would be shocked at your arrogance.
However, I trust you are part of the usual small minority that always causes more harm than good.
I won't change my mind yet about mitigating layoffs but honestly don't you realize we won't get anywhere fighting amongst ourselves?

If you truly read the whole site you would see a few letters of support from mid-pack/more senior pilots. In fact from my understanding looking at the list of supporters the whole P4C thing is being spearheaded by people in the 2000-3000 seniority band. It is always interesting to see how some people like yourself view wanting change and a transparent union as "arrogance or entitlement"...

What has ACPA done in the last 25 years that's even worth mentioning? Nothing. Clearly it's broken and needs to be fixed, or if it's unable to be fixed a real deep dive into the prospects of ALPA A Carrier status. Based on what I've read, and the people I've reached out to I think this P4C thing is a great step in the right direction. Everyone seems to be focusing on the ALPA angle, but if you actually read the site there is much more too it. ALPA is not a sure thing, and it really depends on what the voting membership wants anyways. Either way, ACPA is broken and needs to be fixed.

[Johnny767]

My take is that Pilots for Change is going to backfire in their face. Although I would love nothing better than to see ACPA put out of their (our) misery, this group has already created push back. There are names attached that I wouldn't trust.

There are two demographics, the Pilots that came to AC (mostly from Jazz) late in life and are pissed off at the world. PFO'ed a few times and thanks to the Jazz flow through are now here.

Secondly the entitled brats who's "Journey" must be respected. Been here a year and not a Widebody Captain, of all the indignity, plus those Senior Pilots won't just die, retire or f*^k off.

Enough for me to vote for the old guard.

[planebored]

Secondly the entitled brats who's "Journey" must be respected. Been here a year and not a Widebody Captain, of all the indignity, plus those Senior Pilots won't just die, retire or f*^k off.

Enough for me to vote for the old guard.

The fact you think this is the case says everything I need to know about you.