Thanksgiving?

[Ratherbe]

Our government has created a severely uneven playing field for the Canadian airline industry by not supporting it in the manner that all G20 countries have supported their airlines. I fear that the Liberals and Greens are happy to see us fail as this will reduce emissions. The Conservatives have in the past supported open skies and cabotage which would allow such progressive countries like China and the UAE to dominate our skies with their 4-engined A380s. Does the NDP even support our industry?

I wish ALPA and ACPA would demand WJ and AC management cancel all flights into YOW next week after Thanksgiving until this is resolved. The House reconvenes on October 19th.

If ever there was a time for a wildcat strike this is it.

[planebored]

The big question is if AC and WJ even want actual support. Financially. I imagine they for sure want the 14 day quarantine lifted but as for money, WJ is backed by ONEX and AC has quite a bit of cash on hand.

Any government support would end up having to be equal among all carriers (Because of socialist Canada) and maybe AC/WJ want to see other airlines fail? Just a thought.. Great for business for them.

Bad for labour, the less big airlines we have the less competition for pilots and the wages will reflect that.

TBH instead of AC buying AT I'd rather see like SW and AT merge and become a 3rd BIG airline in the country.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

TBH instead of AC buying AT I'd rather see like SW and AT merge and become a 3rd BIG airline in the country.

Sunwing makes money, unlike Air Transat. I'm sure the Hunters would rather just watch Air Transat disappear on its own, and then capitalize on the routes and markets left in the wake.

[iflyforpie]

For all 12 people flying for thanksgiving?

I’m not even driving for thanksgiving.

Ford is shutting down Ontario.

Don’t you get it? People don’t want to travel, period.

[montado]

That’s because DoFo is acting like it’s the first month of the pandemic where we have no information to make reasonable decisions. You know I have been against the whole mask thing, but to entertain all the pro maskers... if we said social distance, protect the elderly and wear masks when we can’t distance... and change nothing else... if we had done this from day one I think we would be in a better situation in this province.

Empower people to make decisions and take social responsibility. Rather than generate fear. You would probably have similar numbers of compliance. All the decisions now just seem fear based and not rational. All half measures that won’t really slow the spread but will have huge impact on many business owners and employees being asked to take one for the team....

Yeah take one for the team airlines, restaurants, entertainment, hospitality, movie theatres... so we can keep losing this fight... we are in this together! My guess is Ontario is up in the 1500 to 2000 cases a day in 3 weeks... will you be scratching your head as to why? I won’t.

[planebored]

For all 12 people flying for thanksgiving?

I’m not even driving for thanksgiving.

Ford is shutting down Ontario.

Don’t you get it? People don’t want to travel, period.

You must hang out with different kind of people than I do.

[bcflyer]

For all 12 people flying for thanksgiving?

I’m not even driving for thanksgiving.

Ford is shutting down Ontario.

Don’t you get it? People don’t want to travel, period.

I did two flights yesterday. 75-85% full. Talked to a fellow pilot who had people in the JS on his flights. I’d say people are flying for Thanksgiving.

[DHC-1 Jockey]

I did two flights yesterday. 75-85% full. Talked to a fellow pilot who had people in the JS on his flights. I’d say people are flying for Thanksgiving.

Yes, those are impressive load factors, but that is just because airlines are consolidating flights. For example, next week on AC there are only 4 flights per day from YYZ to YOW and 6 from YYZ to YUL. These are routes that used to have 15-20 flights per day each.

If AC ran a normal schedule, those passengers would be spread out and you'd only have 10-20 people per flight.

[iflyforpie]

Wow.. 75%-85% load factors!


With load factors like that... they must not need any help, then! Crisis averted!

[mmm..bacon]

The big question is if AC and WJ even want actual support. Financially. I imagine they for sure want the 14 day quarantine lifted but as for money, WJ is backed by ONEX and AC has quite a bit of cash on hand.

Any government support would end up having to be equal among all carriers (Because of socialist Canada) and maybe AC/WJ want to see other airlines fail? Just a thought.. Great for business for them.

Gotta wonder why my hard earned tax dollars are getting doled out to a hitherto profitable company with money in the bank, or to a multi-billionaire?

[planebored]

Well if there is any support in the future, it will likely be as a loan with interest (even if it's low interest) not a bailout. So your "hard earned tax dollars" will be getting a return.

You're not the only person to pay tax in this country you know.

[The Hammer]

That’s because DoFo is acting like it’s the first month of the pandemic where we have no information to make reasonable decisions. You know I have been against the whole mask thing, but to entertain all the pro maskers... if we said social distance, protect the elderly and wear masks when we can’t distance... and change nothing else... if we had done this from day one I think we would be in a better situation in this province.

Empower people to make decisions and take social responsibility. Rather than generate fear. You would probably have similar numbers of compliance. All the decisions now just seem fear based and not rational. All half measures that won’t really slow the spread but will have huge impact on many business owners and employees being asked to take one for the team....

Yeah take one for the team airlines, restaurants, entertainment, hospitality, movie theatres... so we can keep losing this fight... we are in this together! My guess is Ontario is up in the 1500 to 2000 cases a day in 3 weeks... will you be scratching your head as to why? I won’t.

People were permitted this summer and fall to rely on social responsibility but it's clear in certain demographics (hmmmm 20-40???) that's not working. It's not the schools, I could only wish everyone else was that responsible, and it seems to have cleared up for the most part in the old age facilities.

Back to the drawing board for some regions that aren't socially responsible.

[montado]

That’s because DoFo is acting like it’s the first month of the pandemic where we have no information to make reasonable decisions. You know I have been against the whole mask thing, but to entertain all the pro maskers... if we said social distance, protect the elderly and wear masks when we can’t distance... and change nothing else... if we had done this from day one I think we would be in a better situation in this province.

Empower people to make decisions and take social responsibility. Rather than generate fear. You would probably have similar numbers of compliance. All the decisions now just seem fear based and not rational. All half measures that won’t really slow the spread but will have huge impact on many business owners and employees being asked to take one for the team....

Yeah take one for the team airlines, restaurants, entertainment, hospitality, movie theatres... so we can keep losing this fight... we are in this together! My guess is Ontario is up in the 1500 to 2000 cases a day in 3 weeks... will you be scratching your head as to why? I won’t.

People were permitted this summer and fall to rely on social responsibility but it's clear in certain demographics (hmmmm 20-40???) that's not working. It's not the schools, I could only wish everyone else was that responsible, and it seems to have cleared up for the most part in the old age facilities.

Back to the drawing board for some regions that aren't socially responsible.

Yeah we figured you were old.

[The Hammer]

That’s because DoFo is acting like it’s the first month of the pandemic where we have no information to make reasonable decisions. You know I have been against the whole mask thing, but to entertain all the pro maskers... if we said social distance, protect the elderly and wear masks when we can’t distance... and change nothing else... if we had done this from day one I think we would be in a better situation in this province.

Empower people to make decisions and take social responsibility. Rather than generate fear. You would probably have similar numbers of compliance. All the decisions now just seem fear based and not rational. All half measures that won’t really slow the spread but will have huge impact on many business owners and employees being asked to take one for the team....

Yeah take one for the team airlines, restaurants, entertainment, hospitality, movie theatres... so we can keep losing this fight... we are in this together! My guess is Ontario is up in the 1500 to 2000 cases a day in 3 weeks... will you be scratching your head as to why? I won’t.

People were permitted this summer and fall to rely on social responsibility but it's clear in certain demographics (hmmmm 20-40???) that's not working. It's not the schools, I could only wish everyone else was that responsible, and it seems to have cleared up for the most part in the old age facilities.

Back to the drawing board for some regions that aren't socially responsible.

Yeah we figured you were old.

Absolutely busted, at 41 I have trouble getting out of bed in the morning without taking my fish oil and echinicea supplements first and usually have had a shitty sleep I've had to get up 3 times during the night to pee.

I just want to get back to normal as quickly as possible and enjoy the parts of my life outside of work that I clearly took for granted Pre-Covid.
Thru life experience found out that just ripping off the bandaid (or in this case swaddling) usually works the best.

In the short term no one is really going to miss the locations with high rates of transmission. Does anyone really miss transborder travel right now with the Tump gongshow currently going on? I'm not old enough to be a snowbird so it really isn't affecting my winter plans.

[yycflyguy]

The big question is if AC and WJ even want actual support. Financially. I imagine they for sure want the 14 day quarantine lifted but as for money, WJ is backed by ONEX and AC has quite a bit of cash on hand.

Any government support would end up having to be equal among all carriers (Because of socialist Canada) and maybe AC/WJ want to see other airlines fail? Just a thought.. Great for business for them.

Gotta wonder why my hard earned tax dollars are getting doled out to a hitherto profitable company with money in the bank, or to a multi-billionaire?

Airlines and airports have laid off or furloughed highly skilled and extensively trained workers; at two airlines alone (Air Canada and WestJet), some 30,000 skilled employees have lost their jobs. It is a devastating blow for a sector that previously employed roughly 240,000 workers and contributed nearly $37 billion in Canada’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP). The "strings" attached to any financial aid would always be profitable for the lender, in this case, the Federal Government, so you should be a happy taxpayer to be making money off a private company.

[Ratherbe]

“Gotta wonder why my hard earned tax dollars are getting doled out to a hitherto profitable company with money in the bank, or to a multi-billionaire?”

Good point but the airlines are very expensive to keep running or to keep shut down. Shareholders and that billionaire are not going to have infinite patience. Right now the airline industry is asking for a loan not your tax dollars. Think of it as an investment!

However, if there is no support quickly I think you’ll find that the industry here will die. Back in April CR used the “induced-coma” analogy to explain AC’s strategy to survive COVID. Now JT is denying the industry oxygen just when it is needed the most.

We will need airlines eventually but at this point it looks like they might be foreign government-controlled 4-engined A380’s with no labour laws etc. Maybe the foreign ownership rules will be further opened up to allow our industry to be completely wound down.

Not feeling good about this.