Cargo TA

[Hangry]

I joined the webinar late. Have they discussed the bullshit pay yet?

Painful to listen to. Said the 90% is from a previous agreement or understanding, I didnt understand what they were talking about. Its so painful to listen to them sell this. I cant honestly picture how someone could vote for this. The ONLY people i can see interested in this is Rouge 67 Captains that were way out of seniority that would be bumped to flying a narrow body for years, but wanting to get back on the 767.... Its a disgrace. but will sadly pass

Did I wake up in 2012??

Can we please for once dispense with this Rouge “out of seniority” nonsense.

It’s not factual. It’s literally impossible. I cringe when I hear it cause honestly it just sounds stupid.

A bid was run. Those who bid it got it.

Don’t like it? Don’t bid it.

Move on

[tdp19]

I joined the webinar late. Have they discussed the bullshit pay yet?

Painful to listen to. Said the 90% is from a previous agreement or understanding, I didnt understand what they were talking about. Its so painful to listen to them sell this. I cant honestly picture how someone could vote for this. The ONLY people i can see interested in this is Rouge 67 Captains that were way out of seniority that would be bumped to flying a narrow body for years, but wanting to get back on the 767.... Its a disgrace. but will sadly pass

Did I wake up in 2012??

Can we please for once dispense with this Rouge “out of seniority” nonsense.

It’s not factual. It’s literally impossible. I cringe when I hear it cause honestly it just sounds stupid.

A bid was run. Those who bid it got it.

Don’t like it? Don’t bid it.

Move on

Guessing your a yes.... for the record I was rouge before COVID eliminated it, and I loved it...

[RippleRock]

Can someone explain to me why our contract exists?

There is clear language in our contract covering the setup of a Cargo division, and the ramifications if the Corp decides to use an outside source. Its ALL there. Our MEC has chosen to ignore the very language that was agreed to by the Corp and our Membership when the contract was signed. Full stop.

The MEC is suppose to be the guardian of our contract, our very WACON. It is NOT in their mandate to negotiate side-deals OUTSIDE the contract without our PRIOR approval. I don't recall being consulted.

They are now threatening the Membership with the loss of this flying as they have stated that the Corp will NOT revisit the offer.

I say GO POUND SAND. Follow your mandate, guard our contract and stop creating pay divisions within pay divisions that only further compromise our unity.

And for once, just once, offer a deal without a threat attached. It's downright sickening coming from our own leadership.

[alkaseltzer]

10% less pay without burning a course right seems fair.

......if it's a 10% paycut for a different lifestyle, then sign me up.

Last call for boarding on the gravy ...

Now I need alka seltzer.

10% less = a gravy train? That my friend is why we are in a union. If we negotiated on our own we would be working for next to nothing because of that attitude. So now that I know your willing to work for 10% less on a 767, what reduction are you willing to take for a triple? 15%? 20?

Yes there is always a few that see an opportunity to jump the Q if wages fall in a certain position. Do you know how many people I heard say they were concerned ACPA would fix the Rouge pay rates to a point where they could no longer hold their current position? Add it to the reasons to never go down that path. The devisiness becomes destructive.

How about we just do the flying for the negotiated rate?

Problem is it is too late for that. It is incredibly rare that we vote against an MEC recommendation. This 10% pay cut is now most likely locked in. It’s why these issues should never get past the MEC.

You must have been raised with first world problems for you not to see the long term prospects of this.

Pros:
1. This will take off. Will bring back guys off the street faster. Look at how easy cargojet snapped up our guys for their operation.
2. They're not gonna reconfigure the 787/330/777 for cargo, makes no sense when you can compete with the 767 operation
3. With bleeding about $700M, the pilots on property have been SAVED. NO government support compared to other airlines and they're doing their level best to stay afloat
4. Cargojet has had great profitability in their last few financial quarters - do you want our compensation to be indexed to profitability? If so, more than half the pilots should be on the street.
5. Its innovative
6. COMPETITORS are PISSED!
7. If this picks up as it should and after 3000+ cargo flights, I would imagine there'd be enough overtime to go around. Fatigued? Book off or augment more guys. Either way, win win.

Cons
1. 10% discount I'll take on our strong mgmt. Look at team teal putting their eggs on swoop and got rid of 767s. They're trying to cut and reinvest in the bottom denominator. Sunwing and Transat may not last over the course of the pandemic, which will be at least 2 yrs by the time the logistics of this vaccine has worked out.

Seriously, if you are arguing about 10% and we have more obstacles to face in a pandemic, I think you've forgotten or don't know what it's like to go through a merger or bankruptcy.

[PostmasterGeneral]

Can someone explain to me why our contract exists?

There is clear language in our contract covering the setup of a Cargo division, and the ramifications if the Corp decides to use an outside source. Its ALL there. Our MEC has chosen to ignore the very language that was agreed to by the Corp and our Membership when the contract was signed. Full stop.

The MEC is suppose to be the guardian of our contract, our very WACON. It is NOT in their mandate to negotiate side-deals OUTSIDE the contract without our PRIOR approval. I don't recall being consulted.

They are now threatening the Membership with the loss of this flying as they have stated that the Corp will NOT revisit the offer.

I say GO POUND SAND. Follow your mandate, guard our contract and stop creating pay divisions within pay divisions that only further compromise our unity.

And for once, just once, offer a deal without a threat attached. It's downright sickening coming from our own leadership.

Well said.

The company can’t outsource this flying, or if they do there are ramifications. If we only had a union with a spine that would stand up to them and enforce our contract to make it worthwhile for us to consider?

They should be embarrassed they’re even bringing this forth for ratification. There is no back and forth with the company, they bend over with no negotiation. More like the “yes sir how high sir” committee...

[Oxi]

10% less pay without burning a course right seems fair.

......if it's a 10% paycut for a different lifestyle, then sign me up.

Last call for boarding on the gravy ...

Now I need alka seltzer.

10% less = a gravy train? That my friend is why we are in a union. If we negotiated on our own we would be working for next to nothing because of that attitude. So now that I know your willing to work for 10% less on a 767, what reduction are you willing to take for a triple? 15%? 20?

Yes there is always a few that see an opportunity to jump the Q if wages fall in a certain position. Do you know how many people I heard say they were concerned ACPA would fix the Rouge pay rates to a point where they could no longer hold their current position? Add it to the reasons to never go down that path. The devisiness becomes destructive.

How about we just do the flying for the negotiated rate?

Problem is it is too late for that. It is incredibly rare that we vote against an MEC recommendation. This 10% pay cut is now most likely locked in. It’s why these issues should never get past the MEC.

You must have been raised with first world problems for you not to see the long term prospects of this.

Pros:
1. This will take off. Will bring back guys off the street faster. Look at how easy cargojet snapped up our guys for their operation.
- what about the Max & 220 reductions?

2. They're not gonna reconfigure the 787/330/777 for cargo, makes no sense when you can compete with the 767 operation
- why is it in the LOU for possible arbitration and/or future negotiating on these airplanes?

3. With bleeding about $700M, the pilots on property have been SAVED. NO government support compared to other airlines and they're doing their level best to stay afloat
- saved by who AC or ACPA?

4. Cargojet has had great profitability in their last few financial quarters - do you want our compensation to be indexed to profitability? If so, more than half the pilots should be on the street.
- its clear why they have had great increases in their stock price and overall financial outlook, the cargo industry is booming. Comparing cargo to passenger levels during COVID19 is weak.

5. Its innovative
- who is this so innovative and ground breaking? 4-6 used 767s in a cargo configuration competing against other 767s,757s does not seem so innovative today.

6. COMPETITORS are PISSED!
- hearsay

7. If this picks up as it should and after 3000+ cargo flights, I would imagine there'd be enough overtime to go around. Fatigued? Book off or augment more guys. Either way, win win.
- ah yes just take the 10% pay cut and 12 days off min (10 for a sim month) but bank on the hopes of VO.

Cons
1. 10% discount I'll take on our strong mgmt. Look at team teal putting their eggs on swoop and got rid of 767s. They're trying to cut and reinvest in the bottom denominator. Sunwing and Transat may not last over the course of the pandemic, which will be at least 2 yrs by the time the logistics of this vaccine has worked out.
- "take on our strong mgmt" yes because that has worked well such as the last scope violation grievance?

Seriously, if you are arguing about 10% and we have more obstacles to face in a pandemic, I think you've forgotten or don't know what it's like to go through a merger or bankruptcy.

What are these other obstacles we as pilots face in the pandemic? How many mergers and bankruptcies have you gone through ?

[RRJetPilot]

10% less pay without burning a course right seems fair.

......if it's a 10% paycut for a different lifestyle, then sign me up.

Last call for boarding on the gravy ...

Now I need alka seltzer.

10% less = a gravy train? That my friend is why we are in a union. If we negotiated on our own we would be working for next to nothing because of that attitude. So now that I know your willing to work for 10% less on a 767, what reduction are you willing to take for a triple? 15%? 20?

Yes there is always a few that see an opportunity to jump the Q if wages fall in a certain position. Do you know how many people I heard say they were concerned ACPA would fix the Rouge pay rates to a point where they could no longer hold their current position? Add it to the reasons to never go down that path. The devisiness becomes destructive.

How about we just do the flying for the negotiated rate?

Problem is it is too late for that. It is incredibly rare that we vote against an MEC recommendation. This 10% pay cut is now most likely locked in. It’s why these issues should never get past the MEC.

You must have been raised with first world problems for you not to see the long term prospects of this.

Pros:
1. This will take off. Will bring back guys off the street faster. Look at how easy cargojet snapped up our guys for their operation.
2. They're not gonna reconfigure the 787/330/777 for cargo, makes no sense when you can compete with the 767 operation
3. With bleeding about $700M, the pilots on property have been SAVED. NO government support compared to other airlines and they're doing their level best to stay afloat
4. Cargojet has had great profitability in their last few financial quarters - do you want our compensation to be indexed to profitability? If so, more than half the pilots should be on the street.
5. Its innovative
6. COMPETITORS are PISSED!
7. If this picks up as it should and after 3000+ cargo flights, I would imagine there'd be enough overtime to go around. Fatigued? Book off or augment more guys. Either way, win win.

Cons
1. 10% discount I'll take on our strong mgmt. Look at team teal putting their eggs on swoop and got rid of 767s. They're trying to cut and reinvest in the bottom denominator. Sunwing and Transat may not last over the course of the pandemic, which will be at least 2 yrs by the time the logistics of this vaccine has worked out.

Seriously, if you are arguing about 10% and we have more obstacles to face in a pandemic, I think you've forgotten or don't know what it's like to go through a merger or bankruptcy.

1. No indication or guarantee any one will get brought back. AT ALL.
2. No sense? Do you have some crystal ball or inside info that guarantees the company would never do this?
3. Cargo makes them money, and they will continue to do that without paycuts from the pilots. They have been making money for 8 month and even gloating about how good cargo is.
4. You make no sense. AC Cargo had profitability as well. Paying full wages. Hence why they see value in it.
5. LOL
6. Who the @#$! cares. They arnt paying my mortgage.
8. LOL Overtime to make up lost wages. What is wrong with you.

I really wish your post was meant to be sarcastic or you are some sort of management troll lurking in our pilot forums. If you are really a pilot I am truly embarrassed for you. You are the reason Canadian pilots get paid LESS than anywhere in the world. You are detrimental to our profession and our industry. You have no self worth and cannot bother to think of the long term impacts to our association.

Get your head out of your ass.

[alkaseltzer]

Now I need alka seltzer.

10% less = a gravy train? That my friend is why we are in a union. If we negotiated on our own we would be working for next to nothing because of that attitude. So now that I know your willing to work for 10% less on a 767, what reduction are you willing to take for a triple? 15%? 20?

Yes there is always a few that see an opportunity to jump the Q if wages fall in a certain position. Do you know how many people I heard say they were concerned ACPA would fix the Rouge pay rates to a point where they could no longer hold their current position? Add it to the reasons to never go down that path. The devisiness becomes destructive.

How about we just do the flying for the negotiated rate?

Problem is it is too late for that. It is incredibly rare that we vote against an MEC recommendation. This 10% pay cut is now most likely locked in. It’s why these issues should never get past the MEC.

You must have been raised with first world problems for you not to see the long term prospects of this.

Pros:
1. This will take off. Will bring back guys off the street faster. Look at how easy cargojet snapped up our guys for their operation.
2. They're not gonna reconfigure the 787/330/777 for cargo, makes no sense when you can compete with the 767 operation
3. With bleeding about $700M, the pilots on property have been SAVED. NO government support compared to other airlines and they're doing their level best to stay afloat
4. Cargojet has had great profitability in their last few financial quarters - do you want our compensation to be indexed to profitability? If so, more than half the pilots should be on the street.
5. Its innovative
6. COMPETITORS are PISSED!
7. If this picks up as it should and after 3000+ cargo flights, I would imagine there'd be enough overtime to go around. Fatigued? Book off or augment more guys. Either way, win win.

Cons
1. 10% discount I'll take on our strong mgmt. Look at team teal putting their eggs on swoop and got rid of 767s. They're trying to cut and reinvest in the bottom denominator. Sunwing and Transat may not last over the course of the pandemic, which will be at least 2 yrs by the time the logistics of this vaccine has worked out.

Seriously, if you are arguing about 10% and we have more obstacles to face in a pandemic, I think you've forgotten or don't know what it's like to go through a merger or bankruptcy.

1. No indication or guarantee any one will get brought back. AT ALL.
2. No sense? Do you have some crystal ball or inside info that guarantees the company would never do this?
3. Cargo makes them money, and they will continue to do that without paycuts from the pilots. They have been making money for 8 month and even gloating about how good cargo is.
4. You make no sense. AC Cargo had profitability as well. Paying full wages. Hence why they see value in it.
5. LOL
6. Who the @#$! cares. They arnt paying my mortgage.
8. LOL Overtime to make up lost wages. What is wrong with you.

I really wish your post was meant to be sarcastic or you are some sort of management troll lurking in our pilot forums. If you are really a pilot I am truly embarrassed for you. You are the reason Canadian pilots get paid LESS than anywhere in the world. You are detrimental to our profession and our industry. You have no self worth and cannot bother to think of the long term impacts to our association.

Get your head out of your ass.

ACPA is the reason that I'm getting ZERO dollars while all our fellow colleagues in Porter, Jazz, Westjet, Transat are on wage subsidy. Don't tell me about long term impacts to "our association" when it's people like you that sold out the juniors.

You're not paying my mortgage; in fact, you and 500 others would sell out any junior pilot.

Get your head out Rob Giguere's ASS first before you talk about mine. He saved his son from layoff. How convenient.

Air Canada making money is great; will most likely recall me back faster. The union didn't save me. I have better odds on Rovinescu than fruitcakes like you.

It's guys like you that make this a "blue" collar profession.

[Lt. Daniel Kaffee]

I see the conspiracy theorists and nay-sayers are whipping themselves into a frenzy again. Keep it up!!

[discountpilot]

I see the conspiracy theorists and nay-sayers are whipping themselves into a frenzy again. Keep it up!!

The MOA was a different story, that was temporary.

This is a permanent 10% pay concession on freight flying in order to "secure the flying" as the MEC loves to say. We don't need to secure anything, it's already scoped.

[ZBBYLW]

How bad does this have to get before we look at recalling MM?

[BTD]

You must have been raised with first world problems for you not to see the long term prospects of this.

Pros:
1. This will take off. Will bring back guys off the street faster. Look at how easy cargojet snapped up our guys for their operation.
2. They're not gonna reconfigure the 787/330/777 for cargo, makes no sense when you can compete with the 767 operation
3. With bleeding about $700M, the pilots on property have been SAVED. NO government support compared to other airlines and they're doing their level best to stay afloat
4. Cargojet has had great profitability in their last few financial quarters - do you want our compensation to be indexed to profitability? If so, more than half the pilots should be on the street.
5. Its innovative
6. COMPETITORS are PISSED!
7. If this picks up as it should and after 3000+ cargo flights, I would imagine there'd be enough overtime to go around. Fatigued? Book off or augment more guys. Either way, win win.

Cons
1. 10% discount I'll take on our strong mgmt. Look at team teal putting their eggs on swoop and got rid of 767s. They're trying to cut and reinvest in the bottom denominator. Sunwing and Transat may not last over the course of the pandemic, which will be at least 2 yrs by the time the logistics of this vaccine has worked out.

Seriously, if you are arguing about 10% and we have more obstacles to face in a pandemic, I think you've forgotten or don't know what it's like to go through a merger or bankruptcy.

1. No indication or guarantee any one will get brought back. AT ALL.
2. No sense? Do you have some crystal ball or inside info that guarantees the company would never do this?
3. Cargo makes them money, and they will continue to do that without paycuts from the pilots. They have been making money for 8 month and even gloating about how good cargo is.
4. You make no sense. AC Cargo had profitability as well. Paying full wages. Hence why they see value in it.
5. LOL
6. Who the @#$! cares. They arnt paying my mortgage.
8. LOL Overtime to make up lost wages. What is wrong with you.

I really wish your post was meant to be sarcastic or you are some sort of management troll lurking in our pilot forums. If you are really a pilot I am truly embarrassed for you. You are the reason Canadian pilots get paid LESS than anywhere in the world. You are detrimental to our profession and our industry. You have no self worth and cannot bother to think of the long term impacts to our association.

Get your head out of your ass.

ACPA is the reason that I'm getting ZERO dollars while all our fellow colleagues in Porter, Jazz, Westjet, Transat are on wage subsidy. Don't tell me about long term impacts to "our association" when it's people like you that sold out the juniors.

You're not paying my mortgage; in fact, you and 500 others would sell out any junior pilot.

Get your head out Rob Giguere's ASS first before you talk about mine. He saved his son from layoff. How convenient.

Air Canada making money is great; will most likely recall me back faster. The union didn't save me. I have better odds on Rovinescu than fruitcakes like you.

It's guys like you that make this a "blue" collar profession.

B8DCEA42-3B3E-442E-AECA-A3A119C4012B.jpeg (25.98 KiB) Viewed 1953 times

[discountpilot]

How bad does this have to get before we look at recalling MM?

We can't. Only the MEC can recall the Chair.

[RippleRock]

I see the conspiracy theorists and nay-sayers are whipping themselves into a frenzy again. Keep it up!!

You should be concerned with the regularity that this MEC veers "off contract".

We made an agreement with the Corp to respect that contract when it when it was ratified by the Membership. The Corp, nor the MEC seems to think its worth the paper it was written on. That's disrespectful to those who voted for it, and live with it.

How are we ever to be taken seriously? Why should ANY other aspects of the contract be respected if the MEC deviate from it at their whim?

[RRJetPilot]

You must have been raised with first world problems for you not to see the long term prospects of this.

Pros:
1. This will take off. Will bring back guys off the street faster. Look at how easy cargojet snapped up our guys for their operation.
2. They're not gonna reconfigure the 787/330/777 for cargo, makes no sense when you can compete with the 767 operation
3. With bleeding about $700M, the pilots on property have been SAVED. NO government support compared to other airlines and they're doing their level best to stay afloat
4. Cargojet has had great profitability in their last few financial quarters - do you want our compensation to be indexed to profitability? If so, more than half the pilots should be on the street.
5. Its innovative
6. COMPETITORS are PISSED!
7. If this picks up as it should and after 3000+ cargo flights, I would imagine there'd be enough overtime to go around. Fatigued? Book off or augment more guys. Either way, win win.

Cons
1. 10% discount I'll take on our strong mgmt. Look at team teal putting their eggs on swoop and got rid of 767s. They're trying to cut and reinvest in the bottom denominator. Sunwing and Transat may not last over the course of the pandemic, which will be at least 2 yrs by the time the logistics of this vaccine has worked out.

Seriously, if you are arguing about 10% and we have more obstacles to face in a pandemic, I think you've forgotten or don't know what it's like to go through a merger or bankruptcy.

1. No indication or guarantee any one will get brought back. AT ALL.
2. No sense? Do you have some crystal ball or inside info that guarantees the company would never do this?
3. Cargo makes them money, and they will continue to do that without paycuts from the pilots. They have been making money for 8 month and even gloating about how good cargo is.
4. You make no sense. AC Cargo had profitability as well. Paying full wages. Hence why they see value in it.
5. LOL
6. Who the @#$! cares. They arnt paying my mortgage.
8. LOL Overtime to make up lost wages. What is wrong with you.

I really wish your post was meant to be sarcastic or you are some sort of management troll lurking in our pilot forums. If you are really a pilot I am truly embarrassed for you. You are the reason Canadian pilots get paid LESS than anywhere in the world. You are detrimental to our profession and our industry. You have no self worth and cannot bother to think of the long term impacts to our association.

Get your head out of your ass.

ACPA is the reason that I'm getting ZERO dollars while all our fellow colleagues in Porter, Jazz, Westjet, Transat are on wage subsidy. Don't tell me about long term impacts to "our association" when it's people like you that sold out the juniors.

You're not paying my mortgage; in fact, you and 500 others would sell out any junior pilot.

Get your head out Rob Giguere's ASS first before you talk about mine. He saved his son from layoff. How convenient.

Air Canada making money is great; will most likely recall me back faster. The union didn't save me. I have better odds on Rovinescu than fruitcakes like you.

It's guys like you that make this a "blue" collar profession.

I am in the surplus list so dont talk to me about being junior.
I will say that when this gets voted down, and I really hope it will, you can thank the active pilots who voted to keep your wage where it should be when you get recalled. If you want to work for less money feel free to apply at flair or swoop. I'm sure one of those pilots would gladly switch with you and support keeping our wages where they should be.
BTW your rambling is almost incoherent. How did you get hired in the first place?

[alkaseltzer]

1. No indication or guarantee any one will get brought back. AT ALL.
2. No sense? Do you have some crystal ball or inside info that guarantees the company would never do this?
3. Cargo makes them money, and they will continue to do that without paycuts from the pilots. They have been making money for 8 month and even gloating about how good cargo is.
4. You make no sense. AC Cargo had profitability as well. Paying full wages. Hence why they see value in it.
5. LOL
6. Who the @#$! cares. They arnt paying my mortgage.
8. LOL Overtime to make up lost wages. What is wrong with you.

I really wish your post was meant to be sarcastic or you are some sort of management troll lurking in our pilot forums. If you are really a pilot I am truly embarrassed for you. You are the reason Canadian pilots get paid LESS than anywhere in the world. You are detrimental to our profession and our industry. You have no self worth and cannot bother to think of the long term impacts to our association.

Get your head out of your ass.

ACPA is the reason that I'm getting ZERO dollars while all our fellow colleagues in Porter, Jazz, Westjet, Transat are on wage subsidy. Don't tell me about long term impacts to "our association" when it's people like you that sold out the juniors.

You're not paying my mortgage; in fact, you and 500 others would sell out any junior pilot.

Get your head out Rob Giguere's ASS first before you talk about mine. He saved his son from layoff. How convenient.

Air Canada making money is great; will most likely recall me back faster. The union didn't save me. I have better odds on Rovinescu than fruitcakes like you.

It's guys like you that make this a "blue" collar profession.

I am in the surplus list so dont talk to me about being junior.
I will say that when this gets voted down, and I really hope it will, you can thank the active pilots who voted to keep your wage where it should be when you get recalled. If you want to work for less money feel free to apply at flair or swoop. I'm sure one of those pilots would gladly switch with you and support keeping our wages where they should be.
BTW your rambling is almost incoherent. How did you get hired in the first place?

Surplus list...so you enjoy getting paid while doing zero work. And hustling on the side. Good job on VPFO for promoting socialist zealots like you.

Fyi, Flair and swoop are paying all their pilots...on CEWS. Higher than us furloughed pilots which are getting zero. Get your facts straight. Guess it's too easy to ramble when you're bringing home a paycheck.

With your volatility and hint of elitism, I'd almost ask if you were RGs kid, clearly you're not MMs kid (on furlough).

And that's the last I'm going to talk about this subject, diss all you want. Let's see what the vote says.

[TheStig]

I see the conspiracy theorists and nay-sayers are whipping themselves into a frenzy again. Keep it up!!

The MOA was a different story, that was temporary.

This is a permanent 10% pay concession on freight flying in order to "secure the flying" as the MEC loves to say. We don't need to secure anything, it's already scoped.

Not in a frenzy at all, but I'm voting against this MOA. It's our flying and we get to determine our price, not the BOD. They should certainly determine what operating cost for any venture is required to be profitable. I actually don't have a major issue with the hour rate, it's competitive within the freight market. What I have a problem with is the job, 65 hours a month over 18 days doesn't cut it.

The current MEC hasn't hidden their agenda which is to rid the contract of LOU74 (rouge). What's unfortunate is that in many aspects it was superior to the Mainline contract as this freighter MOA makes it plain to see. If this 'specialty company' had been LOU74 with 'Leisure' replaced by 'Freighter' we'd be voting on a job that paid 77.5 hours/month, a 16 day cap and X2.5 draft. How many times in the webinar did you hear the phrase, "As per the mainline contract." In response to questions about glaring deficiencies in this MOA. The MOA isn't a better contract because the MEC didn't want to make it is different contract. Well guess what? It is and should be treated as such.

A few take aways from the webinar, the lack of enthusiasm from most of the presenters was obvious. The Negotiations Chair all but said they wanted to keep working (to improve the working conditions, reduce the number of days worked, add a snapback clause) but the MEC decided to put what they had to a vote. The company has offered no details to the MEC regarding the plan for the Cargo operation.

The air freight market is huge and the pilot group hold the cards, let's not agree to terms that will be extremely difficult to improve upon later.

[Puffpuffpass]

ACPA is the reason that I'm getting ZERO dollars while all our fellow colleagues in Porter, Jazz, Westjet, Transat are on wage subsidy. Don't tell me about long term impacts to "our association" when it's people like you that sold out the juniors.

You're not paying my mortgage; in fact, you and 500 others would sell out any junior pilot.

Get your head out Rob Giguere's ASS first before you talk about mine. He saved his son from layoff. How convenient.

Air Canada making money is great; will most likely recall me back faster. The union didn't save me. I have better odds on Rovinescu than fruitcakes like you.

It's guys like you that make this a "blue" collar profession.

I am in the surplus list so dont talk to me about being junior.
I will say that when this gets voted down, and I really hope it will, you can thank the active pilots who voted to keep your wage where it should be when you get recalled. If you want to work for less money feel free to apply at flair or swoop. I'm sure one of those pilots would gladly switch with you and support keeping our wages where they should be.
BTW your rambling is almost incoherent. How did you get hired in the first place?

Surplus list...so you enjoy getting paid while doing zero work. And hustling on the side. Good job on VPFO for promoting socialist zealots like you.

Fyi, Flair and swoop are paying all their pilots...on CEWS. Higher than us furloughed pilots which are getting zero. Get your facts straight. Guess it's too easy to ramble when you're bringing home a paycheck.

With your volatility and hint of elitism, I'd almost ask if you were RGs kid, clearly you're not MMs kid (on furlough).

And that's the last I'm going to talk about this subject, diss all you want. Let's see what the vote says.

It's guys like yourself that are singlehandedly destroying our profession.....Why did you come to AC if you wanted to work for FLAIR/WJ WAWCON?
I understand being furloughed is stressful, bitch and complain to your friends, be angry thats totally understandable, but don't sell what you and I have worked so damn hard to get to, down the drain......You will be back on the line before you know it.

[PostmasterGeneral]

The whole notion that "we need to capture this flying" is what really irked me on the webinar. Where the hell is it gonna go if not to us? There is language in the contract to this very effect. I guess when we have an MEC that doesn't UPHOLD the contract, this is what we can expect?

If this is voted down, I have a sneaky suspicion that the company WILL return to the bargaining table. Do we have the strength as a group to call their bluff?

What are guys on the line saying? Is the general consensus that this will pass or be rejected?

[nowind]

From what I hear around me, I feel it will pass. Sad but it is what it is, people are scared to loose that flying. At this point, the company will probably come back with a 50% pay cut to compete with swoop and flair. Like they say, secure the flying now and fix it later....can't wait.