Inverted2 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:48 pm
“The new "express" of the future will be airlines such as PIVOT, and bearskin operating code-share agreements for the very minimal amount of connecting feeder traffic post-pandemic.”
Are you aware PIVOT is a renamed GGN? I don’t think AC has that short of a memory.
Seems Nav Canada and CAE among others have forgotten since they never got the money they were owed - they're allowing pivot flights to land and the simulator company is doing their pilots' recurrents!!! (I've seen it with my own eyes)
Oh and pivot has a perfect safety score now too with the name change
Gulfstream5,
Dude you are out of your mind. I’m pretty sure you are a troll so this is my last post with you. First of all, Jazz is not “entertaining” anyone. If aNything this would be a hostile takeover and they have a poison pill deterrent, because Jazz has very talented legal counsel that saw just such an acquisition comi g when their share price was devalued in the spring by Covid. AC cannot just walk away from their legal obligations outside CCAA. Not sure what’s up with all the hate for the CPA carriers but consider another target for your vitriol
---------- ADS -----------
Last edited by hithere on Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
hithere wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:05 pm
GulfStream,
You strike me as a mainline pilot who would like nothing more than the demise of the CPA agreements than AC has with Jazz/Sky. Are you completely ignorant to the multi-year(as in 17 year in the case with Jazz) contracts that AC has with its CPA carriers? As in beyond 2025 at least eighty, 76 seat seat aircraft?
The only way these obligations could be negated is to enter bankruptcy restructuring. And all bets are off then. Not sure why you despise the CPA carriers so much but careful what you wish for
Let's talk about the elephant in the room. Grievance wins, reduced sky flights, reduced income, or AC cancels due to "weather" so the company doesn't get paid and BAM -
Contract is worthless like a 17 year warranty is worthless if noone answers their 1-800 number to get your broken product replaced.
Gulfstream5 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:04 pm
Seems Nav Canada and CAE among others have forgotten since they never got the money they were owed - they're allowing pivot flights to land and the simulator company is doing their pilots' recurrents!!! (I've seen it with my own eyes)
hithere wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:10 pm
Gulfstream5,
Dude you are out of your mind. I’m pretty sure you are a troll so this is my last post with you. First of all, Jazz is not “entertaining” anyone. If aNything this would be a hostile takeover and they have a poison pill deterrent, because Jazz has very talented legal counsel that saw just such an acquisition comi g when their share price was devalued in the spring by Covid. AC cannot just walk away from their legal obligations outside CCAA. Not sure what’s up with all the hate for the CPA carriers but consider another target for your vitriol
Hey I am genuinely curious about what the details of the poison pill are in the jazz contract. Is it only pertinent to jazz flying, or all of chorus? I've heard of them being put in place before but I didn't come through jazz so I do not know any specifics of your contract and am intrigued. If you don't mind explaining to me I would be appreciative.
What he can’t seem to comprehend is that coming out of downturns the regionals actually grow and the mainline carrier’s will shrink because you don’t need a 130 seat c series when there is only 50 people flying. Look at what happened in the states after 9/11, the only reason the US carriers pre-covid were up-gauging to the mainline from the regionals was a pilot shortage.
Gulfstream5 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:44 pm
Chorus is in the process of entertaining proposals for a buy-out, they may want to exit the CPA altogether and focus on other types of flying.
AC has NO need for e175s - therefore no need for sky.
Chorus has had 1 unsolicited offer with significant conditions attached. This offer is likely low (as the stock is down now). They can reject it if they like.
At least 80% of Chorus's revenue comes from the CPA agreement with AC. There is no chance that Chorus "may want to exit the CPA altogether and focus on other types of flying".
AC does have a need for 76 seat jets. Just less now during Covid. Whether it's the E175, the RJ900, or both remains to be seen.
What A/C would you propose for doing the the routes these planes fly, particularly post Covid, with any reasonable frequency?
You may be right, I don't care if it's a 50 seater or 130. All I care about is an ACPA pilot doing Air Canada flying. Scope, scope, scope.
Early 2000's CRJs were flown pi AC pilots. 2005-2006 circa, e-175 flown by AC pilots. Will we see some regional gauge aircrafts back in mainline's hands? It certainly is possible!
AC has methodically divested itself of the regional sized airframes and I suspect is loathed to going backwards. AC has passed these airframes down to the regional operators through CPA agreements for one reason, lower operating costs. So unless mainline pilots are considering a regional term & conditions similar to their recently agreed to cargo terms & conditions I just don't see regional flying returning to mainline any time soon.
Loon-A-Tic wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 12:37 pm
AC has methodically divested itself of the regional sized airframes and I suspect is loathed to going backwards.
ACPA doesn't care if they are loathed to go backwards or not. It isn't the point.
The point is scope for AC pilots must and will be respected one way or another. They can give the work to AC pilots or they give a nice check to ACPA members for compensation. (Has been done in the past, F28 circa, was about 10 000$ per member)
The bean counters can figure that one out. But it comes down to, 600 ACPA members sit on the street while their work is getting done by contractors, breaking article 1 of the CBA.
Gulfstream5 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:44 pm
Chorus is in the process of entertaining proposals for a buy-out, they may want to exit the CPA altogether and focus on other types of flying.
AC has NO need for e175s - therefore no need for sky.
Chorus has had 1 unsolicited offer with significant conditions attached. This offer is likely low (as the stock is down now). They can reject it if they like.
At least 80% of Chorus's revenue comes from the CPA agreement with AC. There is no chance that Chorus "may want to exit the CPA altogether and focus on other types of flying".
AC does have a need for 76 seat jets. Just less now during Covid. Whether it's the E175, the RJ900, or both remains to be seen.
What A/C would you propose for doing the the routes these planes fly, particularly post Covid, with any reasonable frequency?
.
The CHR CPA isn’t going anywhere, unless AC reveals itself to be the buyer.
Coming out of the COVID era, it is more likely than not that Express will be operating a smaller but more efficient fleet. 50 seat fleets will shrink (disappear?) as AC permanently exits tertiary markets. Express will be focused on large-to-medium and medium-to-medium city pairs with larger regional aircraft (Q400/CRJ900). Most likely just one surviving Express vendor (guess who?).
AC/TS will be smaller. Express will be smaller. AC and Express will no longer staff smaller stations. Subcontracted staffing if there are AC Express flights. Some stations revert to codeshare partners only.
AC may set this up so it can reverse course if the Halcyon days of limitless demand of the previous decade return. Perhaps not.
Gulfstream5 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:44 pm
Chorus is in the process of entertaining proposals for a buy-out, they may want to exit the CPA altogether and focus on other types of flying.
AC has NO need for e175s - therefore no need for sky.
Chorus has had 1 unsolicited offer with significant conditions attached. This offer is likely low (as the stock is down now). They can reject it if they like.
At least 80% of Chorus's revenue comes from the CPA agreement with AC. There is no chance that Chorus "may want to exit the CPA altogether and focus on other types of flying".
AC does have a need for 76 seat jets. Just less now during Covid. Whether it's the E175, the RJ900, or both remains to be seen.
What A/C would you propose for doing the the routes these planes fly, particularly post Covid, with any reasonable frequency?
.
The CHR CPA isn’t going anywhere, unless AC reveals itself to be the buyer.
Coming out of the COVID era, it is more likely than not that Express will be operating a smaller but more efficient fleet. 50 seat fleets will shrink (disappear?) as AC permanently exits tertiary markets. Express will be focused on large-to-medium and medium-to-medium city pairs with larger regional aircraft (Q400/CRJ900). Most likely just one surviving Express vendor (guess who?).
AC/TS will be smaller. Express will be smaller. AC and Express will no longer staff smaller stations. Subcontracted staffing if there are AC Express flights. Some stations revert to codeshare partners only.
AC may set this up so it can reverse course if the Halcyon days of limitless demand of the previous decade return. Perhaps not.
I think the first step in cost reductions at the CPA level will be by parking the AC owned E175s at Sky Regional. Beyond that, I suspect and agree with your guess for additional cost savings by contracting out of staff at smaller stations. The longer term plans for DH3 fleet at Jazz will depend on whether AC decides to permanently exit a number of smaller markets that cannot support larger gauge aircraft.
Chorus has had 1 unsolicited offer with significant conditions attached. This offer is likely low (as the stock is down now). They can reject it if they like.
At least 80% of Chorus's revenue comes from the CPA agreement with AC. There is no chance that Chorus "may want to exit the CPA altogether and focus on other types of flying".
AC does have a need for 76 seat jets. Just less now during Covid. Whether it's the E175, the RJ900, or both remains to be seen.
What A/C would you propose for doing the the routes these planes fly, particularly post Covid, with any reasonable frequency?
.
The CHR CPA isn’t going anywhere, unless AC reveals itself to be the buyer.
Coming out of the COVID era, it is more likely than not that Express will be operating a smaller but more efficient fleet. 50 seat fleets will shrink (disappear?) as AC permanently exits tertiary markets. Express will be focused on large-to-medium and medium-to-medium city pairs with larger regional aircraft (Q400/CRJ900). Most likely just one surviving Express vendor (guess who?).
AC/TS will be smaller. Express will be smaller. AC and Express will no longer staff smaller stations. Subcontracted staffing if there are AC Express flights. Some stations revert to codeshare partners only.
AC may set this up so it can reverse course if the Halcyon days of limitless demand of the previous decade return. Perhaps not.
I think the first step in cost reductions at the CPA level will be by parking the AC owned E175s at Sky Regional. Beyond that, I suspect and agree with your guess for additional cost savings by contracting out of staff at smaller stations. The longer term plans for DH3 fleet at Jazz will depend on whether AC decides to permanently exit a number of smaller markets that cannot support larger gauge aircraft.
Not sure how much smaller you can go than operating an Otter
I think it’s very sad to see AC dropping some routes.
As to what equipment will operate when/if these routes open again, I’d imagine that fuel efficiency will be the name of the game. I think the Q4 might be the more fuel efficient machine compared to the RJ900 and E175. Who knows though...
Hasn't PAL jumped on Express and Porter leaving certain East Coast markets by recently adding 3(?) Q400s to their fleet. Perhaps its a sign of things to come across the country in many regional markets.
dhc# wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:23 pm
Hasn't PAL jumped on Express and Porter leaving certain East Coast markets by recently adding 3(?) Q400s to their fleet. Perhaps its a sign of things to come across the country in many regional markets.
Once again, scope. Scope. Scope!!!
Basically, AC can't enter into a codeshare on routes wholly within Canada. The can't enter a joint venture on routes within Canada, unless ACPA would allow it. If PAL was to fly AC passengers it would have to be under a CPA.... highly unlikely.
dhc# wrote: ↑Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:23 pm
Hasn't PAL jumped on Express and Porter leaving certain East Coast markets by recently adding 3(?) Q400s to their fleet. Perhaps its a sign of things to come across the country in many regional markets.
Once again, scope. Scope. Scope!!!
Basically, AC can't enter into a codeshare on routes wholly within Canada. The can't enter a joint venture on routes within Canada, unless ACPA would allow it. If PAL was to fly AC passengers it would have to be under a CPA.... highly unlikely.
Is EVAS still an AC feeder in NL and elsewhere in Atlantic Canada?
