Overtime available

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altiplano
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Re: Overtime available

Post by altiplano »

simply_no_one wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:46 pm
notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:43 pm
simply_no_one wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:41 pm

And if the 600 furloughs were on CEWS they'd still be paying dues.

Also I completely disagree with your post anyways. We are still members of ACPA and have the longest time left in this job over pretty much every active pilot. They should be protecting our futures and the future of the job in general. The old adage "we don't negotiate for people not hired yet" is an old way of thinking and it's how we ended up where we are now with horrible 4 year flat pay and a garbage pension.
I'm sorry that you're having such a bad time with ALPA.

I can tell you for a fact that not every ALPA pilot group feels the way the AC pilot group seems to feel. I can give you some more specifics over PM if you'd like, but my bargaining group is doing an absolutely amazing job! [coming from another furloughed pilot]
Thanks man I come from an ALPA carrier, and miss it. ACPA is a dumpster fire run by an old boys club who only care about their flight release and maintaining "power"...

I know ALPA has been doing pretty good for other groups including Jazz.

My dream is the pilots here wake up and kick ACPA to the curb. Enough of giving away the farm to "capture" flying... If the same people are in charge come next major contract renewal I'm very very worried of what bullshit they will try to sell us.
2 years to the opener.

3 until the framework MOA is done and it's restrictions and protections lifted.

Unless ACPA decides to declare the benchmarks not met in 2023, which it is very likely they won't be.
Might not be a strategically sound move though depending on the rate of recovery between now and then.

Either way it's likely MR will try to lock us down again for another 10 in 2023 with the pandemic crisis fresh in our minds - no crisis wasted.

They'll probably promise to bring all the furloughs back on the property in exchange for a long term deal.

An apathetic and uniformed membership will fall for it... this time we'll probably get 1% raises, and 1% lump sums... and another B pass.

The corp will come out with surprise profits beating analysts through '24, '25, '26. Just like we did '14, '15, '16 right after we signed up for the current 10...

The time is now for the association to prepare the membership for the opener and a new contract which is imminent then, or the following year. Let's get some recovery targets and stop looking at our feet mid pandemic. Let's start hearing where the US traffic recovery is, where the US majors are reporting expected profits... let get a look at where we're heading on the upswing out of this.

If we go in beat down, we're going to get the contract beat down we deserve.

And if I hear another guy at work tell me that we're just lucky to have jobs... I'm flying the whole pairing.
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Hangry
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Re: Overtime available

Post by Hangry »

I don’t think they’d mind.
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altiplano
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Re: Overtime available

Post by altiplano »

Hangry wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:48 pm I don’t think they’d mind.
LOL... I couldn't think of anything else... but I'm just tired of it.
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Julian.B
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Re: Overtime available

Post by Julian.B »

Say what you will people, but when it comes to taking care of your family, paying the bills, etc. morality is out the door. If my spouse lost her job and I had to be "immoral" to make it to next month, I'll take all the overtime I can get. I could care less about who's offended and who is not. It's not up to me to recall people. That's the company's business. If they think they need more crews, they should call them back.

With all that being said, if I don't need to take the overtime, I will not... and have not.

We're not in a position to judge anyone in this matter. Unfortunately, it's every man for himself (or woman, to be PC). Times are tough.
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RippleRock
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Re: Overtime available

Post by RippleRock »

There should be a very valuable lesson learned from signing the last 10 year contract.

1) They are designed to protect the Membership from economic downturns by providing stability. EPIC FAIL.
2) They absolutely protect the Company from the Membership acquiring --any gains-- during times of prosperity. EPIC WIN for the Company.

Long term deals (5 years+) are a LOSE- LOSE proposition for the Membership, and should be BANNED permanently.

ACPA should learn the meaning of the term --SNAP-BACK CLAUSE-- before negotiating anything, ever again. Jeeezus, I don't mind taking a hit and helping out but PLEEEZE don't enshrine permanent lets (10% cargo) into the contract. We --should-- be able to recover when the Shareholder do.

We have gone nowhere but nowhere with ACPA and their negotiating prowess. :roll: I cringe whenever I hear "approved by the MEC".
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simply_no_one
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Re: Overtime available

Post by simply_no_one »

Scope chair doing almost 100 hours this month. Nice to see leadership by example. Be part of the choir selling the 55 then 63 hour deal, giving away 30% scope and doing nothing for the furloughed members to protect their jobs, then have access to DSCs and STILL fly 97+ hours plus 2 days of sim. Do the math on what that equals after you factor the OT calculations... I'd love a $40,000 month paycheck.

NO ONE can tell me that anyone "needs" $40,000 in a month to stay afloat and pay bills.
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Julian.B
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Re: Overtime available

Post by Julian.B »

simply_no_one wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:31 pm Scope chair doing almost 100 hours this month. Nice to see leadership by example. Be part of the choir selling the 55 then 63 hour deal, giving away 30% scope and doing nothing for the furloughed members to protect their jobs, then have access to DSCs and STILL fly 97+ hours plus 2 days of sim. Do the math on what that equals after you factor the OT calculations... I'd love a $40,000 month paycheck.

NO ONE can tell me that anyone "needs" $40,000 in a month to stay afloat and pay bills.
That is correct. But in my case, doing 15 hours a month overtime allows me to pay off all my bills. But I have said it before, I was lucky enough to have a spouse that still has her job and I don't need, nor do I take, overtime. I wouldn't hesitate to do it if I was in trouble (financially)
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Hangry
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Re: Overtime available

Post by Hangry »

simply_no_one wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:31 pm Scope chair doing almost 100 hours this month. Nice to see leadership by example. Be part of the choir selling the 55 then 63 hour deal, giving away 30% scope and doing nothing for the furloughed members to protect their jobs, then have access to DSCs and STILL fly 97+ hours plus 2 days of sim. Do the math on what that equals after you factor the OT calculations... I'd love a $40,000 month paycheck.

NO ONE can tell me that anyone "needs" $40,000 in a month to stay afloat and pay bills.
It’s really none of your business. Now you’re into doxing guys on a public forum?

I’ll let you in on a secret. Most guys don’t care. Like at all. We live our lives and forums are for fun, not a lifestyle like you seem to think.
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Last edited by Hangry on Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
alkaseltzer
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Re: Overtime available

Post by alkaseltzer »

simply_no_one wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:31 pm Scope chair doing almost 100 hours this month. Nice to see leadership by example. Be part of the choir selling the 55 then 63 hour deal, giving away 30% scope and doing nothing for the furloughed members to protect their jobs, then have access to DSCs and STILL fly 97+ hours plus 2 days of sim. Do the math on what that equals after you factor the OT calculations... I'd love a $40,000 month paycheck.

NO ONE can tell me that anyone "needs" $40,000 in a month to stay afloat and pay bills.
Every man for himself.

Image
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Captain Kirkk
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Re: Overtime available

Post by Captain Kirkk »

alkaseltzer wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:30 pm
simply_no_one wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:31 pm Scope chair doing almost 100 hours this month. Nice to see leadership by example. Be part of the choir selling the 55 then 63 hour deal, giving away 30% scope and doing nothing for the furloughed members to protect their jobs, then have access to DSCs and STILL fly 97+ hours plus 2 days of sim. Do the math on what that equals after you factor the OT calculations... I'd love a $40,000 month paycheck.

NO ONE can tell me that anyone "needs" $40,000 in a month to stay afloat and pay bills.
Every man for himself.

Image
Again, I fly a 767 and you are probably laid off, lets be humble here.

KD
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ikarus
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Re: Overtime available

Post by ikarus »

Julian.B wrote: Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:36 am Say what you will people, but when it comes to taking care of your family, paying the bills, etc. morality is out the door. If my spouse lost her job and I had to be "immoral" to make it to next month, I'll take all the overtime I can get. I could care less about who's offended and who is not. It's not up to me to recall people. That's the company's business. If they think they need more crews, they should call them back.

With all that being said, if I don't need to take the overtime, I will not... and have not.

We're not in a position to judge anyone in this matter. Unfortunately, it's every man for himself (or woman, to be PC). Times are tough.
I get your point... But to a certain point😊

If we all had a descent livable contract where you don't need to be relying on your spouse 's income, none of this should matter or bother us. But we got ourselves to a point in our careers where making it to the majors in Canada does not provide that financial security unless you've been on Seniority min 4-5 years or you are in the left seat. We got our selves to this miserable situation because we allowed it. Now do I agree it's fair for the senior guy to scoop up overtime while his colleagues are laid off? No.

I've been very fortunate to work for an airline in Europe where my wife didn't have to work one day because she decided to raise our kids and be at home. And even after covid hit our profession where I took a 45% pay cut, we are still managing. Not great but managing... On my FO salary! I know I couldn't do that even in my dreams in Canada...
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Julian.B
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Re: Overtime available

Post by Julian.B »

ikarus wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:39 pmI get your point... But to a certain point😊

If we all had a descent livable contract where you don't need to be relying on your spouse 's income, none of this should matter or bother us. But we got ourselves to a point in our careers where making it to the majors in Canada does not provide that financial security unless you've been on Seniority min 4-5 years or you are in the left seat. We got our selves to this miserable situation because we allowed it. Now do I agree it's fair for the senior guy to scoop up overtime while his colleagues are laid off? No.

I've been very fortunate to work for an airline in Europe where my wife didn't have to work one day because she decided to raise our kids and be at home. And even after covid hit our profession where I took a 45% pay cut, we are still managing. Not great but managing... On my FO salary! I know I couldn't do that even in my dreams in Canada...

You're correct. I've also been very lucky that my wife still works (and from home) and is also being able to take care of our kids while I'm flying, barely hanging on to my job. I have taken just a few shifts overtime since the pandemic started. (I mean a few...TWO). It was a route I wanted to do and nobody seemed to be picking it up.

Doing overtime to provide for your family: OK. And we all know that without two incomes, most people will end up on the streets nowadays
Doing overtime because you're bored and want that 100 credits a month to pay for your boat, cottage, 1st wife's purses, etc. is not okay, from a moral point of view. Legally they can do what they wish if the contract and CARs allows it.

But since when is it up to us pilots to be the moral compass for others? We've been screwing each other since the 80s... It's up to the airlines and unions to manage who and what flying goes to whom. I'm a little sick and tired of everyone talking about this. If you have an issue, call your union rep or manager.

I wish I could work in Europe. That's no in the cards. The pay vs the cost of living is much better than Canada.
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