No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

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Fidget
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by Fidget »

Those of you complaining your hearts out, why not volunteer for committees or run for election? Stop complaining and fueling your negativity and run for office so we can get these guys out! Do we need change? Yes. Do we need ALPA? Hell no. WE ARE ACPA! Let’s take care of our own shit.

Complain. Complain. Complain. Do something if you think you know better and can do better. Junior members are watching.
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RippleRock
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by RippleRock »

redbusdriver wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 2:55 am
"Highest paid carrier in North America" - what's wrong with that?
why stop there? should be best paid in the world no?
Alti, I think we are arguing with Rouge guys who are more than happy to strip Mainline bare. They never would have been given the opportunity to make what they are, in the seat they are, and have a relatively decent schedule unless it was strip-mined from Mainline. 320 and 767 Mainline flying was decimated.

I'm only asking to stop the slide into the abyss and work toward unifying the group under one WACON set. For 80 years before us, Air Canada pilots had worked to build a strong, unified, respectful career that was compensated to a level commensurate to the level of responsibility.

This Union has presided over the most precipitous drop in those hard earned gains by continually tripping over themselves to be "first in line" to assist with NO SNAPBACK. Then we wonder why they ALWAYS come to us first and ask for the most. We have no "line in the sand" any more.

Scope let....Sure! That's ---all we have--- If you don't have Scope, you've got nothing. How much of a discount did the Dispatchers take for Cargo? How about the Mechanics? No one....only pilots took a hit. The 10% was unnecessary and an embarasment. How fast and eager were we to "save the day" when the Covid slowdown occured? Again first in line. No Assessment, no market analysis, no "How much will our donation actually save, and what exact impact would that be?" 6-month, 30% wage give, no questions asked, let's start there....WTF.

It's downright embarrassing. We have ZERO self respect. There isn't any coming on the horizon.

PS, "Hithere" I'm bored, and don't like hockey or kids and I don't drink. Don't tell me how to spend my spare time.
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hithere
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by hithere »

I understand the need to vent one’s frustrations and I suppose avcanada is as good a place as any, but if you really want to effect change in the leadership at ACPA, the only way to do it is to run for office at the LEC level. Unless you are willing to do that and unless you can get enough support from the membership to win, you are just spinning your wheels here. And recent voting results would indicate that most prefer a leadership that is willing to work with the company rather than against it
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RippleRock
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by RippleRock »

Yes...join the LEC/MEC yadda yadda....make a difference. :roll: Hear that plenty.

Wading into that toxic cesspool of "groupthink" is the last thing I would ever do. They are "indoctrinated" into believing the entire success or failure of the Company rests in their hands. "Capitulate and work with us or we go under". That's the message. The result is collusion to the detriment of every member, and our 80 year legacy. A legacy we didn't create, but were handed the custodianship of. What $hit custodians of that legacy we have been.

If a pilot group can't be compensated properly at industry standard wages (I mean US and European percentage levels, not the "fly by nighters"), then a major international airline doesn't have a right to exist in the same environment of those that do. There has to be a certain level of mutual respect between the group and Company..... unfortunately it's a one way street.

The dues I pay every month for this "Muppet Show" of a Union, gives me the --right-- to bitch about it. Places to do so unfettered are limited.
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altiplano
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by altiplano »

The association will only take supporters of the status quo that will go along with the company as volunteers. They kick out anyone that actually pushes to represent our interests.

The LEC councillors are censured for their input if it doesn't go along with the top.

It's a perpetual 6:5 vote at the top.

The change has to come from the bases that hold a disproportionate say.
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Fanblade
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by Fanblade »

hithere wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 6:53 am And recent voting results would indicate that most prefer a leadership that is willing to work with the company rather than against it
Working “with” the company or “for” the company?

There is a huge difference.

Step back and listen to how much our reps sound like you are speaking to management. That is working for, or on behalf of the company. It’s not working with.

ACPA is a Yellow Union. The fact that ACPA operates this way of its own volition, is a testament to management and how well they have “managed” us. If I put my shareholder hat on? They deserve bigger raises.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_union

A company or "yellow" union is a worker organization which is dominated or influenced by an employer,

Some labor organizations are accused by rival unions of behaving like "company unions" if they are seen as having too close and cordial a relationship with the employer, even though they may be recognized in their respective jurisdictions as bona fide trade unions.[3]
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redbusdriver
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by redbusdriver »

altiplano wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:13 am
GFYS.
not going to win any arguments or change minds with childish behaviour, and as a captain, you should be setting an example.
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altiplano
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by altiplano »

redbusdriver wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:42 pm
altiplano wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:13 am
GFYS.
not going to win any arguments or change minds with childish behaviour, and as a captain, you should be setting an example.
I am setting an example.

All I see from you and your likes is an attitude of capitulation and I'm not going to take it anymore.

I'm not putting up with those that seek to justify diminishing the position, diminishing the work that came before us. I'm not putting up with people that don't think it's reasonable to push for better.

You come on with a snotty, sarcastic reply to a completely reasonable assertion to strive towards, something that betters you, betters me, betters those around us, and those that come after us:
redbusdriver wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 2:55 am
"Highest paid carrier in North America" - what's wrong with that?
why stop there? should be best paid in the world no?
You get told GFYS.
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redbusdriver
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by redbusdriver »

the sad thing is altiplano, is you can't even be civil towards your own brothers and sisters just because they don't share your view. what's next beating them up in the parking lot? or in the flightdeck should the conversation come up? being militant isn't going to further your endeavours. i think you need to take a break and get some fresh air or get laid.
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altiplano
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by altiplano »

redbusdriver wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:50 pm the sad thing is altiplano, is you can't even be civil towards your own brothers and sisters just because they don't share your view. what's next beating them up in the parking lot? or in the flightdeck should the conversation come up? being militant isn't going to further your endeavours. i think you need to take a break and get some fresh air or get laid.
To be clear, you don't share the view that we should attempt to advance our position and our profession.

Now you make leaps and day I'm going to beat you up?

Get a life, words aren't violence. And also you're the one trolling me... taking issue with my comment that we should strive for better.

And now you're telling me to get some fresh air? To "get laid"?

What are you a child?

Fact is that the company never takes a break.
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Montroyal
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by Montroyal »

So as long as a Legacy carrier pilot makes more than a low cost carrier - they can't be asking questions?

Curious on all the other comparisons we lag behind on: When do other airlines with actual unions get their schedules? 10 days prior?

Ever ask an airline pilot down south? We suck in every single regard


All 3 sympathizers on here that try to fabricate a narrative that it is only a handful of people that are furious with the direction of this "union" is comical at best.

The day of reckoning is coming soon - hopefully the believers respect the will of the membership when it is formally decided "ACPA: just not good enough"
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QKZXKV
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by QKZXKV »

Montroyal wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 7:07 pm So as long as a Legacy carrier pilot makes more than a low cost carrier - they can't be asking questions?

Curious on all the other comparisons we lag behind on: When do other airlines with actual unions get their schedules? 10 days prior?

Ever ask an airline pilot down south? We suck in every single regard


All 3 sympathizers on here that try to fabricate a narrative that it is only a handful of people that are furious with the direction of this "union" is comical at best.

The day of reckoning is coming soon - hopefully the believers respect the will of the membership when it is formally decided "ACPA: just not good enough"
I dub those who are "sympathizers" as our "astronauts". :rolleyes: It's the old boy's club that serves the top tier.
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iflyroads
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by iflyroads »

Emails went out to 301 pilots last night.

However only 100 training slots available between Oct and December.

787 RP - YYZ/YUL
220 FO - YYZ/YUL
737 FO - YYZ/YUL
330 FO - YYZ/YUL
320 FO - YWG

For now the plan is to recall approximately 100~ pilots every 3 months. If demand picks up even further and the training resources allow, that will change.


Important to note the company doesn't have to pay anyone till first day of training.
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rudder
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by rudder »

iflyroads wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:12 am Emails went out to 301 pilots last night.

However only 100 training slots available between Oct and December.

787 RP - YYZ/YUL
220 FO - YYZ/YUL
737 FO - YYZ/YUL
330 FO - YYZ/YUL
320 FO - YWG

For now the plan is to recall approximately 100~ pilots every 3 months. If demand picks up even further and the training resources allow, that will change.


Important to note the company doesn't have to pay anyone till first day of training.
Wow. So number 301 might not be back on payroll until June 2022?

What about numbers 302-600? 2022? 2023?
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iflyroads
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by iflyroads »

rudder wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:17 am
iflyroads wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:12 am Emails went out to 301 pilots last night.

However only 100 training slots available between Oct and December.

787 RP - YYZ/YUL
220 FO - YYZ/YUL
737 FO - YYZ/YUL
330 FO - YYZ/YUL
320 FO - YWG

For now the plan is to recall approximately 100~ pilots every 3 months. If demand picks up even further and the training resources allow, that will change.


Important to note the company doesn't have to pay anyone till first day of training.
Wow. So number 301 might not be back on payroll until June 2022?

What about numbers 302-600? 2022? 2023?
The 100 every 3 months is just an estimation for now. As mentioned if the demand and training capacity line up that can change.


A few defferals are expected and there have been a few resignations. Not a significant number to affect recall timelines though.

Last I looked there were 591 on furlough prior to this most recent bid.
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Last edited by iflyroads on Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
737Maximilian
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by 737Maximilian »

rudder wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:17 am Wow. So number 301 might not be back on payroll until June 2022?

What about numbers 302-600? 2022? 2023?
As someone on the back end of the 600, being back before the summer of 2023 would be my guess.
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EPR
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by EPR »

redbusdriver wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 5:50 pm the sad thing is altiplano, is you can't even be civil towards your own brothers and sisters just because they don't share your view. what's next beating them up in the parking lot? or in the flightdeck should the conversation come up? being militant isn't going to further your endeavours. i think you need to take a break and get some fresh air or get laid.
Actually redbusdriver, as a member of your "rank and file", you deserve the "soap bars in socks treatment" (Full Metal Jacket style) while you lay in your crash-pad top-bunk...while annoying everyone else in the room, shame on you!
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Last edited by EPR on Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Keep the dirty side down.
loudmouth
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by loudmouth »

Don't forget, this recall process puts all the power in the companies hands. Many pilots will be forced to take what's offered or defer until the next 100, and cost them money, YOS, pension etc. as there is NO bypass pay. Jr pilot assigned training before you? Too bad for you, no bypass pay.. even though pilots have no control over training slots... how is this fair? It's a blatant contract violation to not allow bidding of any vacancy upon recall notice. All the while every single furloughed Jazz pilot has been on payroll since end of August and just completed a bid where EVERYONE got to bid, and exercise their seniority rights for the position THEY WANTED and could hold. FFS there's only FOUR 787RP slots for the first 102 positions! How the @#$! did we end up here. So much for having seniority. Lots of pissed off pilots, the chat groups have been rumbling.

ACPA fucked this up just like they @#$! everything up.

Thanks for fighting for our furloughed pilots. Oh wait, you rolled over yet again because anyone not on the DB doesn't matter to you. It's fantastic that you resigned Mike, good riddance. It's too bad you couldn't take the CEO and Negots Chair with you out the door.
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WhatThe?
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by WhatThe? »

You don't think Mike is heading directly to management? I give it 6 weeks before he goes.....
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iflyroads
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Re: No pilot recalls until Spring 2023???

Post by iflyroads »

Some recall emails being sent out today.

Congrats to those who have received/will receive them.
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