IAM Vote

[whiteguy]

50.8% against!

[yyz monkey]

Depends on which unit:

Clerical: 93.2% in favour
Finance: 87.5% In favour
TMOS: 50.8% against

[yycflyguy]

Interesting how our vote was to start Tuesday but nothing is happening now. Should be an interesting summer.

[c170b53]

You can put a positive spin on it as long as you don't look at the numbers involved.
What can be taken from the result is, it almost passed the membership, when given the times it should have been a done deal if it was simply about money.
Its unfortunate that the company chose to proclaim the only means to save jobs was to tie three agreements into one when there was no reason to do so other than to continue dismantling the mill.

[nick29]

You can put a positive spin on it as long as you don't look at the numbers involved.
What can be taken from the result is, it almost passed the membership, when given the times it should have been a done deal if it was simply about money.
Its unfortunate that the company chose to proclaim the only means to save jobs was to tie three agreements into one when there was no reason to do so other than to continue dismantling the mill.

What numbers do you speak of?
What three agreements?

[c170b53]

I'll post shortly the details but essentially this company only has one MO, instill fear rather than build confidence. If there was a little positive snippet into the plan wouldn't this vote be a landslide? If we had not been here before we might believe them when they point to the edge of the world. Instead of something positive, it was a poor attempt to dupe a majority into condemning a minority to a slow and certain death.
I'm truly sorry to post so many negative posts, I feel as if I were a reporter for CNN but whats happening to this company that has so many good employees is criminal. And like any criminal, escape is foremost in the plan, Rob is good as is the board.

[Jaques Strappe]

Well, unfortunately, I don't think anyone is going to be very happy with the alternative. It was not a popular TA by any stretch but I think now you will see job losses and a deal that will probably be worse than what was negotiated. Not sure what people are expecting to get from a safe that has long since been cleaned out by thieves.

Perhaps the vote better illustrates a pissed off demographic rather than the merit of the agreement? Pension reform is coming anyway, probably by the end of the year, so not sure why it would have been voted down on that front.

[teacher]

This was in the paper this morning............

Labour deal rejection a blow for Air Canada
'Got to take it back'

Janet Whitman, Financial Post
Published: Thursday, July 02, 2009

Air Canada's largest union narrowly rejected a labour deal, a move that could threaten to put the cash-strapped airline on a course toward its second bankruptcy in six years.

The largest part of the union representing about 10,000 workers, including mechanics, baggage and cargo handlers, aircraft cleaners and electricians, came out 50.8% against a tentative deal reached early last month.

The pact would freeze pensions and wages for the next 21 months, the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers announced on Wednesday.

Agreements with its unions are a key component for the Montreal-based company to secure as much as $600-million in financing that it needs to avoid what would be its second bankruptcy filing in six years.

The "no" vote also could put the airline's effort to gain federal government approval to defer most of its pension payments until March 31, 2011, into a holding pattern.

Labour leaders had been pushing for workers to accept the pact.

"We're not very happy about it," said Bill Trbovich, director of communications with the union. "We've got to take it back to the table and see if we can fix it.

"We want to move forward," Mr. Trbovich said. "The bank is empty. The company doesn't have money and things have to go ahead so it can get financing. The alternative is [bankruptcy] and we don't want that to happen."

. Atkinson, IAMAW District 140 president and directing general chairperson, said that workers are still upset over the company's last bankruptcy filing. "Overall the members are still angry," he said. "Now we're in the same position again. Employees are being asked to step up to the plate and save the company."

Other divisions of the union voted overwhelmingly for the agreement, with clerical workers more than 93% in favour and finance workers showing nearly 88% support.

A representative of Air Canada didn't answer requests for comment, but the firm said in a statement that it would meet promptly to discuss the next steps in the process.

At least two other unions at the airline, representing customer service agents and dispatchers, had previously agreed to the pact.

Air Canada began seeking a moratorium on its pension obligations this year after its solvency deficit ballooned to $2.9-billion, up from $1.2-billion the previous year. That left the struggling airline to come up with $650-million in funding this year, a next to impossible task as it tries to ride out the recession

http://www.financialpost.com/news-secto ... id=1750697

[c170b53]

My comment about numbers, Clerical and Finance, I believe roughly about 700 employees in those groups voted for this agreement. TMOS roughly well not exactly sure my number is correct but significantly larger group of employees. IAM says 30% of that group voted on the deal.

The Three agreements 1) Pension agreement
2) Contract extension
3) Aveos Memorandum of agreement

Note the relationship in the IAM of the work groups. Baggage outnumbers maintenance. Maintenance requires licenses and training but as a skilled trade probably one of the lower paid trades out there. AC cargo is paid well above (YVR) the contract baggage available and can be replaced much easier than the mechanics.

The new contract highlights;

* No further sale of AC divisions, Cargo and AC Ground Handling (Maintenance excluded)

* An extension of the no layoff clause for FT Station Attendants and CSCA’s. (Maintenance excluded)

* A guarantee of Jazz work below the wings. (Maintenance excluded)

* De-icing in YYC and YEG. (Maintenance excluded)

* Phased-in retirement. (Maintenance excluded)

* Vacation purchase plan (Maintenance excluded)

* $40 boot allowance (well Maintenance was included in this one)

The Aveos deal Why? and why put it into a labour agreement?

Simple once in a labour agreement, voted on by the majority how would the mechanics protect themselves legally. Air Canada wanted to dump a large segment of their maintenance group into a company that for all intents and purposes is bankrupt and they (AC) know it, ACE set it up with guess who the old Nortel guy as point man. The trades fought back by writing to their members of parliament and the the OSFI fearing that their pensions would disappear. This has held up the transition but it looked like an opportunity presented itself for the company to once again dump employees and they tried to slide it by, by buying votes.

Am I delusional? Note the following was not news until a mechanic dug it up. Also see my post in the thread about AC pension liabilities. Read the paper I've posted and also note that there's been a significant amount of research into the economics involved.

The Company is guarantor for two credit agreements dated October 16, 2007: between Aveos Fleet Performance Inc. (former ACTS Aero Technical Support & Services Inc., “Aveos”) as borrower and lenders mentioned below:

First Lien Credit Agreement

* The loan has been granted in USD by a consortium of lenders, with Lehman Brother Inc as sole lead arranger and book .. As at December 31, 2008 an amount of $479.5 million CAD are owed to the consortium. The loan matures October 16, 2014.


Second Lien Credit Agreement

* The loan has been granted in CAD by Woodbridge Investments Inc, with Lehman Brother Inc as sole lead arranger and book .. As at December 31, 2008 and amount of 235.9 million CAD are owed to the lender. The loan matures April 16, 2015.


The Company has signed general security agreements for the first and second lien in favor of Lehman Commercial Paper Inc as collateral agent, whereby substantially all the assets of the Company are pledged until the reimbursement of the first and second lien credit agreements.

Subsequent to December 31, 2008, Aveos (the borrower as described in note 12) failed to make its quarterly interests payments due on January 16, 2009. As a result, the borrower is in default of its First and Second Lien Credit Facilities as well as its revolving credit facility. Accordingly, Aveos may be required , without having the liquidity, to repay entirely the amount outstanding on its credit facilities. In the event of default, the lenders have the right to exercise the pledges and take possession over the related assets.

The ability of Aveos as borrower to continue as going concern and to realize the carrying value of its assets and discharge its liabilities when due is dependent on the successful completion of the actions taken or planned, which management believes will mitigate the adverse conditions and events which raise doubt about the validity of the “going concern” assumption. There is no certainty that these and other strategies will be sufficient to permit the borrower to continue beyond December 31, 2009.

Would you vote for a deal that sent you to a virtually defunct company?

Now what?
Well it puts cargo in a tough spot. Get a bit of a deal but if they help sell the group riding shotgun down the road, they know they are next.
Best of all is the clause put in that in the event there is a buyer for any division the deal can be renegotiated. That's an AC Hail Mary.

If this was about saving Air Canada it would be simply the pension agreement first, possibly a contract that cleaned up language then it would pass as many want to fight on solid ground. It will be interesting to see the companies spin on it, no doubt we are the cause of all evil with a sinister plan to destroy the good work and sacrifice of the other members of the family. Ironic isn't it.

This is the company we work for, don't know how we change it.

[tonysoprano]

I find it hard to believe that AC would allow its maintenance operation to be completely shut down and all maintenance workers gone essentially shutting us down. Am I reading this correctly c170?

[torx]

C170,
are you turning this into a Cargo/Baggage vs. Mechanics scenario?
So since you have compared your "industry wage standard" to our USA counterparts, what is the wage standard for Cargo/Baggage handlers at UA? AA? Every MRO or company that has mechanics pays it's employees various wages. Some lower mechanic's wages were mentioned about IMP in an other thread, you mentioned WJ pays more. It varies across the country. Again, you fail to take averages.
If in Canada, their are say....1,000,000 retail employees. And 100,000 of these employees work for Wal-Mart. Does that make the "industry wage standard" for retail equivalent to Wal-Mart employees' wages?
So based on your logic, your "industry wage standard" is based on the highest rates in Canada? The Continent? But not averages. BUT, when you mention the "industry wage standard" for cargo/ground handlers, you base it on the lowest in the country. Well, if that ain't biased?
Nobody is disputing what you should or shouldn't earn, but why make scape-goats out of the grunts? BTW, you already know this, but I'll share with everyone reading. 35%+ of the ground/cargo/csa are part-time employees that make between $9.50 and $12. Their is a high turnover in this P/T category.
New hires that become F/T can reach maximum salary after 5 years service. Within that first 5 years, half will quit and work elsewhere. With the Red Pass in hand, many leave to be employeed at CATSA, where they can get an immediate raise without a broken back.
Ignorance and misinformation. It's everywhere.
Cheers!

[wallypilot]

In any case, there is a mess to be cleaned up....I personally had no idea that Aveos had such a large operation in El Salvador...if I was a Mech at AC, i'd be worried too, at least according to the following article. Someone advise if the following article is inaccurate.

Breaking News from The Globe and Mail
Air Canada mechanics seek job security

BRENT JANG

Thursday, July 02, 2009

Mechanics at Air Canada's Montreal, Winnipeg and Vancouver hangars want assurances that their jobs won't be transferred to El Salvador, a key demand as labour talks resume Friday in an effort to revive the cash-strapped airline's recovery plans.

Employees in the three cities have been told that their positions are safe for the next 21 months, but are eager to see job security in the longer term, said Lorne Hammerberg, the Winnipeg-based president of Local 714 of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers.

The Canadian workers most at risk are those assigned to airframe heavy maintenance projects, which involve labour-intensive scheduled checks and inspections of aircraft, Mr. Hammerberg said Thursday.

Aveos Fleet Performance Inc., formerly named Air Canada Technical Services, has more than 1,400 employees in the El Salvador capital of San Salvador. While Air Canada could insert clauses to provide some comfort to mechanics and other technical staff, the final decision on where the aircraft repair contracts are carried out would rest with Aveos, a sister company of Air Canada.

Last month, the IAMAW won the battle to keep more than 3,000 Aveos workers in Canada on a tentative collective agreement with Air Canada for the next 21 months.

Mr. Hammerberg said if the contract language could extend job security beyond 2011, then “a tweaking of the contract and a revote could be in order.”

ACE Aviation Holdings Inc. owns 75 per cent of Air Canada and 27.8 per cent of Aveos.

Aveos spokesman Michael Kuhn said Thursday that the Aveos-run Aeroman plant in San Salvador is already booked solid for the next four years, and could expand as customer demand grows for narrow-body aircraft repairs. The Aeroman plant has also sent work to Aveos in Canada, Mr. Kuhn said.

The San Salvador plant doesn't even handle wide-body aircraft contracts, such as those at Air Canada, an industry observer added.

Aeroman's existing contracts include foreign carriers such as Dallas-based Southwest Airlines Co.; Mexico's Volaris; US Airways Group Inc. of Tempe, Ariz.; JetBlue Airways Corp. of Forest Hills, N.Y.; and El Salvador-based Grupo TACA Holdings Ltd., a major operator of Central American airlines.

[c170b53]

We are not talking the entire maintenance group only because presently MOT regulation prevents it. The bases that have both line and heavy, the line is staffed with those that can hold it based on seniority, those left over work for Aveos. The company line is no one works for Aveos they are seconded but that will change with the MOA. Two corrections for my last post; the number of employees in TMOS has been reported as 10K, I didn't post that as to me that seems a bit high. The Pres of Aveos is no longer Mr Bolouri. the former Nortel boss.

[c170b53]

Could be bad news for mechanics, could be bad news for many support workers.

[torx]

The new contract highlights;

* No further sale of AC divisions, Cargo and AC Ground Handling (Maintenance excluded)

* An extension of the no layoff clause for FT Station Attendants and CSCA’s. (Maintenance excluded)

* A guarantee of Jazz work below the wings. (Maintenance excluded)

* De-icing in YYC and YEG. (Maintenance excluded)

* Phased-in retirement. (Maintenance excluded)

* Vacation purchase plan (Maintenance excluded)

* $40 boot allowance (well Maintenance was included in this one)

Hmmm....c170b53 conveniently forgot to add that the following only apply for 21months...and seems to be twisting the wording around. Why?
* No further sale of AC divisions, Cargo and AC Ground Handling (Maintenance excluded)
add *for the next 21months only*

*An extension of the no layoff clause for FT Station Attendants and CSCA’s. (Maintenance excluded)
add * their was never a no lay-off clause per say, but., F/T can't be laid off while P/T are employed. This reverts to 1995 senority (previously 1990). F/T can be laid off upto 1995 senority, P/T would have to be laid off to go deeper to F/T. *

* De-icing in YYC and YEG. (Maintenance excluded)
add * for the next 21 months only. Union has no control if YEG AA/or YYC AA farms out De-icing. IE: YYZ/YUL/etc.,*
* Phased-in retirement. (Maintenance excluded)
add * Retirees (cgo & baggage) can return to work after retirement as a P/T employee. But Mtce. should be included.* *
Vacation purchase plan (Maintenance excluded)
add *reduced Time Bank hours, but Mtce. should be included.*

* $40 boot allowance (well Maintenance was included in this one)
add * was always included*

Don't forget the details!!
Ignorance and misinformation... it's everywhere.

[torx]

http://www.atozfishing.co.uk/cartoon.gif

Looks like our favorite Brown trout seeking troll is back with the usual dribble.

Lost for words?
Facts boy.....just the facts.!

Ignorance and misinformation is everywhere.

[c170b53]

Torxey cut back on the salt!

[tonysoprano]

The San Salvador plant doesn't even handle wide-body aircraft contracts, such as those at Air Canada, an industry observer added.

Aeroman's existing contracts include foreign carriers such as Dallas-based Southwest Airlines Co.; Mexico's Volaris; US Airways Group Inc. of Tempe, Ariz.; JetBlue Airways Corp. of Forest Hills, N.Y.; and El Salvador-based Grupo TACA Holdings Ltd., a major operator of Central American airlines.

More info is unfolding. Someone's getting sold some wrong info. I say take another vote.

[hithere]

"A guarantee of Jazz work below the wings"-what on earth does that mean?

[JazzJetDriver]

It means they get to continue their high paying job of loading/ unloading bags.