AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

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Raymond Hall
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AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by Raymond Hall »

One of my associates just sent me a message saying that Air Canada has recently advised the Flight Attendants that it will now allow them to continue working to age 70, and that anyone whose employment was terminated at age 65 who is between age 65 and 70 now is being welcomed back.

Can anyone provide the details on this? Apparently, this new policy has been in effect for about two weeks.
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Big Pistons Forever
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

:shock:
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YWGGuy
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by YWGGuy »

:shock: Oh jesus. I guess we can thank Raymond and his friends for starting the ball rolling on this.

I have flown on United to Sydney and one of the girls was 73. Honestly her co-worker had to help with the trolleys she could not carry more then one meal at a time and I am scared to think of what would happen if she was actually needed to perform her job in the event of an accident. Oh well lets all be PC and put our heads into the sand - we won't need to have a flight attendant actually deploy a raft or help someone out of a door if they get scared at the top.

For what it's worth - my mother works for AC and is in the top age bracket of flight attendants. Luckily she has kept herself in good shape but she even knows that her usefulness is not going to be the same in a few years. Most of the flights she does is with senior girls - and when she goes down to Sao Paulo or Hong Kong all she complains about is the useless girl who can't pull her own weight around - this is going to get worse!
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mbav8r
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by mbav8r »

There should be some kind of fitness and strength test, if you don't pass, you don't fly. There must be some kind of way to figure out how much arm strength would be required to open a half frozen door latch, then apply that minimum to a test. As the pilots get older it will be harder to pass when your response times slow, likewise there should be an annual test for FAs.
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by duranium »

mbav8r

You wrote '' as the pilots get older it will be harder to pass when your response times slow ''

Correct me if I am wrong but I read somewhere that in aviation that '' haste makes waste'' so how do you fit what you wrote into this discussion. I would understand if you were a jet fighter jock ( could you be one ?) but this is about airline flying I think. So, I, for one, would much prefer learned, posed and meticulous aviators flying us folks around these hostile skies.
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by mbav8r »

Ok replace response time with thought process, example 70 year old driving down the street and everything appears to be fine, get up behind him/her and start honking at them because they are going too slow. Watch the hilarity begin, you throw something out of the ordinary at them and confusion begins and then panick and then they make a wrong turn into on coming traffic, no longer funny. Now someones life is in danger because they wouldn't give up thier independence. That's in a car...
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by HavaJava »

mbav8r wrote:get up behind him/her and start honking at them because they are going too slow.
Don't honk at old people...that's discriminatory :P
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rudder
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by rudder »

I spoke with a Delta guy who recalls doings a flight with a 79 year old F/A.........
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by Understated »

YWGGuy wrote:Oh jesus. ... Oh well lets all be PC and put our heads into the sand ... this is going to get worse!
Nice rant. Definitely not politically correct, as you note. And you don’t leave a good impression with others about your YWG domicile or origin, especially given the fact that it will be the home of the new Canadian Human Rights Museum.

I trust that you are also planning a rant about blacks, Hispanics, aboriginals, gays, and homeless people as well? In any event, you should start working on your rant about post-age 70 Flight Attendants, because come next September, after the repeal of the mandatory retirement exemption comes into force, there will be no age limit at Air Canada or anywhere else in the airline industry.

And that will not result by reason of any choice made by Air Canada. No. It will be as a result of the Member of Parliament that you elected deciding that your bristling prejudices should no longer be reflected in the laws of this country.

By the way, even though the second hand on the clock appears to be moving fairly slowly, it won’t really be long before you also are included in the very group that you Generation X’ers apparently now have such contempt for.
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by Solaris »

Raymond Hall wrote:One of my associates just sent me a message saying that Air Canada has recently advised the Flight Attendants that it will now allow them to continue working to age 70, and that anyone whose employment was terminated at age 65 who is between age 65 and 70 now is being welcomed back.

Can anyone provide the details on this? Apparently, this new policy has been in effect for about two weeks.
Mr. Hall

This is completely FALSE information! I am an Air Canada Flight Attendant and have heard absolutely nothing about this "ruling"
so I phoned my Component President. She assured me that nothing of the kind has been instigated and this was the first time
she was hearing about this latest rumor. Please triple check your sources prior to printing incorrect information. Thank you.
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HavaJava
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by HavaJava »

Perhaps Mr. Hall is out on a fishing trip to attempt to enrage people enough that they will make un-PC comments that he can use in court to try to prove his group is being discriminated against?
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vic777
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by vic777 »

Oh jesus. I guess we can thank Raymond and his friends for starting the ball rolling on this.
Raymond and V&K and the others are lucky, they will always be able to look at themselves in the mirror and say, "I made a difference!".
There should be some kind of fitness and strength test, if you don't pass, you don't fly.
This is a good idea, it should apply to Pilots also, Pilots of all ages of course, Thirty year olds and their fathers, Seventy year olds.
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by Changes in Latitudes »

We were really put on this planet to work like that until we're 70? Pilot or flight attendant, it can be a trying job at times. I'll be doing everything possible to avoid having to work like that in my 60's (if given the privilege to live that long).

I suppose, however, if someone feels that dire need because of their situation, and their age does not impair them in any way, fill your boots. But for me, its something to be avoided.
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by Inverted2 »

rudder wrote:I spoke with a Delta guy who recalls doings a flight with a 79 year old F/A.........
When I first read that I thought it said a Delta guy who recalls doing a 79 year old F/A :mrgreen:
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by HavaJava »

Inverted2 wrote:When I first read that I thought it said a Delta guy who recalls doing a 79 year old F/A :mrgreen:
Coffee, Tea, or Me?...Depends!
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Raymond Hall
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by Raymond Hall »

Solaris wrote:This is completely FALSE information! I am an Air Canada Flight Attendant and have heard absolutely nothing about this "ruling" so I phoned my Component President. She assured me that nothing of the kind has been instigated and this was the first time she was hearing about this latest rumor. Please triple check your sources prior to printing incorrect information. Thank you.
Thank you for that. That is why I put the question mark in the thread title; I did not state it as a fact, but as a piece of information that I had been given.

My reason for posting it was to get the facts, which you have apparently just given us, and for no other purpose. Now we know.

By the way, I have made calls to your Component President (but not within the last several weeks, however) and she has not returned my calls.
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by Cat Driver »

We were really put on this planet to work like that until we're 70? Pilot or flight attendant, it can be a trying job at times. I'll be doing everything possible to avoid having to work like that in my 60's (if given the privilege to live that long).
Had I quit at 60 I would not have had the privilege of accomplishing the following.

Flew for French FT1 in Europe, Africa and South America.

Worked for Airbus Industries and received training on the A320 at the factory in Toulouse.

Was stand by pilot for the TV series " Band of Brothers ".

Flew for Miramax.

Flew for eight years as an airdisplay pilot in Europe and held an unrestricted airdisplay authority in Europe.

Made scads of money during that period of my career.

Of course I can understand you would not wish to those things, to each his own. :roll:

I retired at 70 only because I chose to, not because I could not pass the flight tests to hold my licenses.
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by yycflyguy »

Cat. Were you a part of a collective bargaining group with a negotiated collective agreement? Was your advancement dependent on an archaic seniority system? Were your opportunities dependant on colleagues respecting a negotiated benefit and a deferred compensation system? No. As a dependent contractor you have the right and flexibility to determine what is best for you. The complaints you are reading here is a result of pilots being shackled to an antiquated system and then watching the goalposts be moved under a guise of human rights violations. It is nothing more than a cash grab for the "victims" and the mounting lawyers fees leaving the next generation to pay for it and deal with the shattered union.
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by aviator2010 »

Abusive, personal attack removed by Sulako. You have been warned about abusive posts previously. Strike 2.
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Panama Jack wrote:I'm afraid I will have to agree with aviator2010

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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by duranium »

mbav8r wrote:Ok replace response time with thought process, example 70 year old driving down the street and everything appears to be fine, get up behind him/her and start honking at them because they are going too slow. Watch the hilarity begin, you throw something out of the ordinary at them and confusion begins and then panick and then they make a wrong turn into on coming traffic, no longer funny. Now someones life is in danger because they wouldn't give up thier independence. That's in a car...
respecfully, the above example does not hold water. All readers here, yourself included I presume, know that pilots must pass a periodic medical exam. What you are implying with the above is that the examiners ( doctors ) are an incompetent bunch and cannot detect a loss of cognitive awareness that would make validating a pilot's license a big no-no. If all the 70 year old car drivers passed a periodic medical examen to be able to drive a car, then your above example could be sustained. Also, you seem to be implying that all pilots below that magic number you are fighting have not lost enough of same awareness. That is an exercise in fairytale writing.

Also, how many fatalities implicating above 60 year old pilots have occured in the world since ICAO, as many here have written, moved the goalposts versus car fatalities directly involving 70 year and above old car drivers, for any reason and not just confusion ?
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by Understated »

yycflyguy wrote:The complaints you are reading here is a result of pilots being shackled to an antiquated system and then watching the goalposts be moved under a guise of human rights violations. It is nothing more than a cash grab for the "victims" and the mounting lawyers fees leaving the next generation to pay for it and deal with the shattered union.
I find it incredulous that if you repeat the same self-serving, malicious inaccurate statements often enough, you actually start believing your own BS.

What does the fact that Parliament is repealing the mandatory retirement exemption have to do with any alleged "cash-grab" by anyone? Do you honestly believe that the proposed legislative changes to bring the federal sector’s treatment of mandatory retirement into line with the treatment of mandatory retirement by all of the other ten legal jurisdictions in this country has anything at all to do with the provisions of your collective agreement and your alleged right to ensure that its provisions are held paramount? Get real.

Did you not know when you were hired that the mandatory retirement exemption under the statute was an "exception" that was "conditional" on "normal age of retirement," and that when the "normal age of retirement" changed, so too would your precious age 60 limit? Even if you weren’t advised, did that give you some inalienable right to expect the ground rules in this volatile industry to never, ever change?

I know for a fact that there a dozens of others here who saw the writing on the wall over five years ago with respect to the implications of developments outside of your narrow, parochial self-serving, short-sighted union executives’ view of reality, and openly warned those individuals again and again that they should work within the legal constraints instead of bucking them.

Their response? With your unending concurrence and support: slay the messengers; deny reality; spend hundreds of thousands of dollars of your money on the lawyers that you mention, to do what? Fight the inevitable and expose you and all of your peers to immense potential liability that will eventually be paid from wages that come right out of your own pocket, and split the union into internal we-they factions instead of focusing on working together to improve the collective agreement pay parameters and structural pay system prior to entering into contract negotiations with the employer that rubs its hands in glee at what it is facing as a result?

Wake up, son. You have absolutely no-one to blame for your current predicament but yourself. So how about ending your whining about what others are doing to you and your precious right to remain rooted in the 1960's, and start taking responsibility for your own mistakes?

It is patently ironic that the key resources that you really need in your arsenal of response are the ones that you are most intent on ridding yourself of—experience and wisdom.
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Last edited by Understated on Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

mbav8r
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by mbav8r »

Duranium, Chill abit and read the context of what I was trying to say. I was saying that there should be some type of annual test for FAs to continue thier career, like pilots go through. I also gave that as an example of what aging does to your cognitive awareness, not all pilots will be affected, but certainly some will be. When's the last time you sat for your medical and your doctor started honking at you, while throwing something at you, while giving you a choice of left or right, left or right, hurry up choose, hurry come on choose, honk honk. Anyone on here past a certain age been checked for cognitive ability. I doubt you could tell how someone will react under stress by asking them a series of questions, without some form of a stressor. For the record, I will likely be one of those old confused drivers, unless they come out with some test to determine when I can no longer drive, I'll be driving.
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by mbav8r »

Cat, no one is telling them to quit flying, no one is saying go crawl into a hole and die. How many of those things would you have been able to accomplish while still working fulltime at AC. I bet if you had a nice pension to suppliment while you were off around the world flying everything under the sun, it would've been that much more enjoyable.

Flew for French FT1 in Europe, Africa and South America.

Worked for Airbus Industries and received training on the A320 at the factory in Toulouse.

Was stand by pilot for the TV series " Band of Brothers ".

Flew for Miramax.

Flew for eight years as an airdisplay pilot in Europe and held an unrestricted airdisplay authority in Europe.

Made scads of money during that period of my career.

Of course I can understand you would not wish to those things, to each his own.

I retired at 70 only because I chose to, not because I could not pass the flight tests to hold my licenses
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by Cat Driver »

I was pointing out the fact that age is not the criteria that determines a pilots flying skills and his/her ability to fly.

It varies from individual to individual and is not limited by age 60....period.

Flying is a paint by numbers type of occupation and can be learned by the vast majority of people wanting to learn same.
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Re: AC Extends Flight Attendant Max Age to 70?

Post by vic777 »

Cat Driver wrote:Flying is a paint by numbers type of occupation and can be learned by the vast majority of people wanting to learn same.
My wife is getting me a paint by numbers set for my retirement ... I was worried ....
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