SELF-DESTRUCT -- PRESS

[Wheels]

Meh....

[DBC]

all NewHires are treated to 4 years from $42 - $60/hour

... The actual proposed pay Rates for New hires in the TA1 in 2012 were as follows:

Year 1: $49,800
Year 2: $54,980
Year 3: $63,270
Year 4: $71,560

Wasn't year 3 and 4 a decrease for some positions though?

[Fanblade]

all NewHires are treated to 4 years from $42 - $60/hour

... The actual proposed pay Rates for New hires in the TA1 in 2012 were as follows:

Year 1: $49,800
Year 2: $54,980
Year 3: $63,270
Year 4: $71,560

Wasn't year 3 and 4 a decrease for some positions though?

This is the perspective of someone hired in the fall of 2010.

Year 1 & 2 are an increase from the present contract. Year 3 & 4 are a decrease from present PG pay rates. It comes out to a zero sum game

[Fanblade]

all NewHires are treated to 4 years from $42 - $60/hour

... The actual proposed pay Rates for New hires in the TA1 in 2012 were as follows:

Year 1: $49,800
Year 2: $54,980
Year 3: $63,270
Year 4: $71,560

Wasn't year 3 and 4 a decrease for some positions though?

This is the perspective of someone hired in the fall of 2010.

Year 1 & 2 are an increase from the present contract. Year 3 & 4 are a decrease from present PG pay rates. It comes out to a zero sum game.

For those who would have attained 320 FO within 2 years it is a substantial pay cut.

I was at the road shows. They sold it as a pay raise referring to the first two years only. I heard comments like "we don't negotiate for the unborn" " yeah New hires are getting thrown under the bus"

Make no mistake about it. These individuals see a need for change. Their objective was to make sure someone else bore that burden.

I can't tell you how repulsed I was when I left the road show.

[JZA]

Yes you are right.

At present the 320 pays a fair bit more if you are able to hold it during years 3 & 4. (in the 80s)

Keep in mind that generally speaking there are not very many guys/gals that can hold the "bus" with less than 4 years seniority...at the moment there are only 16 pilots.

[morefun]

TA1 will never be a good deal.

TA1 may not have been the best deal but it will be better than what we get now

[Fanblade]

Yes you are right.

At present the 320 pays a fair bit more if you are able to hold it during years 3 & 4. (in the 80s)

Keep in mind that generally speaking there are not very many guys/gals that can hold the "bus" with less than 4 years seniority...at the moment there are only 16 pilots.

JZA,

Honestly it is not that I don't see the need for change. I do. But the change must affect everyone equally.

The "concerned pilots" are concerned alright. For them and no one else.

I would never follow anyone of the previous MEC or NC.

They have proven themselves untrustworthy. Now they are back interfering.

[Fanblade]

TA1 will never be a good deal.

TA1 may not have been the best deal but it will be better than what we get now

The present contract with no raise is a better deal for the junior folks.

[Fanblade]

TA1 will never be a good deal.

TA1 may not have been the best deal but it will be better than what we get now

The present contract with no raise is a better deal for the junior folks.

Like I said. After being at the road show for TA1 any new hire following this group is crazy. They don't care about your future.

Good riddance. To bad they didn't get the message when they were recalled.

Perhaps if they had taken their knowledge that the company needed to change but had applied the changes evenly we wouldn't be hear right now.

Because right now it is out of our control. All the present MEC has done is try to correct what they did. Unfortunately the company won't negotiate and with the help of the government doesn't have to.

Thanks cornered pilots. Please no more helping.

[JZA]

Status quo or TA1?

I'll take the TA1 thank you very much. An instantaneous uplift of pay of $23,000 a year before taxes for a person in my seniority range/equipment type and the prospect of quicker advancement and pay increase thanks to ACPA pilots flying any future LCC.

For me...the status quo will mean no raise. And zero fleet growth (at best) will mean I will have no advancement opportunities for years to come.

[Fanblade]

For me..........is the key.

Grandfathered pay? What about the person that eventually fills your spot?

What about the 320 F0 pay cuts in group pay?

There is no LCC. It was a diversion. What the company is looking for now is a vastly increased CPA system.

The LCC never existed. It was designed to sell pay increases through advancement. It was done to soften the impact on the lower half of the list. But it does not exist.

Go look at the latest offer from the company on Aeronet. They are still offering we fly LCC if it ever happens. It was a ruse.

[Fanblade]

JZA,

I say this to people all the time about TA1. Step back and look at it as if it had been deliberately negotiated with a fictional LCC.

The mainline groupings still exist.
The pay table is false.

Look who escaped the difficult changes within TA1 if the LCC was fictional.

With the exception of EMJ FO's? Every FO and RP position is a pay cut or at best status quo after granfathering. All captains saw raises. If you were really senior you got a 25k raise even if the LCC was fictional and your pension upped to 140k before it implodes on the rest of us.

Havin a hard time trustin.

[std by]

Too much water under the bridge...TA1 is long gone. CR has the hammer now thanks to the government envolvement. Fasten your seat belts...it's gonna be a rough one...

[Mig29]

I doesn't have to be rougher then right now guys....

all it takes is some SERIOUS unity amongst ACPA/IAMAW members and parking of the fleet for a couple of days....that's it. (only a couple of hundred ramp guys caused mayhem the other Friday...just imagine if there was a larger outrage)

Watch and you would have a totally new and renegotiated contract in.....a week or two max!

But that requires large cojonas on everyone's behalf....rare "item" there days

[TheStig]

Yes you are right.

At present the 320 pays a fair bit more if you are able to hold it during years 3 & 4. (in the 80s)

Keep in mind that generally speaking there are not very many guys/gals that can hold the "bus" with less than 4 years seniority...at the moment there are only 16 pilots.

Not true, since TA1 was rejected every Air Canada pilot could have held A320 FO on any of the equipment bids. In fact, the past bid (11-03) had A320 FO vacancies unfilled in YUL, YYZ, and YVR.

[Takeoff OK]

Can someone please post the contents of the letter? Since it is obviously not sanctioned by ACPA, nor is it an official internal memo, I see no legal reason not to share with all of us. It would be very interesting to see what the top of the list is trying to convince the rest of you to do.

[TAT]

To all AC pilots out there that are even considering following these traitors : Our new team elected by us contain some of the players that exposed bw for the self-serving ignorant *** that he is. He didn't treat his members with respect when he was the MEC chair and he's not doing it now by taking the secret road to damaging our union. Our new elected members has direction from the majority of the membership they are well spoken and respectful. I have faith in them so should you. I would much rather be pounding pavement than have TA1 inflicted on us.

[JZA]

Not true, since TA1 was rejected every Air Canada pilot could have held A320 FO on any of the equipment bids. In fact, the past bid (11-03) had A320 FO vacancies unfilled in YUL, YYZ, and YVR.

...everyone could have held it...but most chose not too...hence there are 16 pilots at present with less than 4 years seniority occupying the right seat on the 320. The "majority" of pilots with less than 4 years seniority are EMJ FOs (followed second by 767 RPs)

[JZA]

even considering following these traitors

... ??? Those are some very harsh words and accusations. To my knowledge no one was ever formally accused, charged or what have you of anything. That rumor like so much other crap in the last year has been fueled by mob mentality, fear and social media.

I couldn't care less who is behind the latest campaign to present TA1 during FOS. The fact is if you take the time to read it and understand, (and turn off the conspiracy button) you will see that this contract is a lot better than what we have, and a hell of a lot better than what we are about to get given the direction of negotiations where they left off and the level of government interference.

[SilentMajority]

even considering following these traitors

... ??? Those are some very harsh words and accusations. To my knowledge no one was ever formally accused, charged or what have you of anything. That rumor like so much other crap in the last year has been fueled by mob mentality, fear and social media.

I couldn't care less who is behind the latest campaign to present TA1 during FOS. The fact is if you take the time to read it and understand, (and turn off the conspiracy button) you will see that this contract is a lot better than what we have, and a hell of a lot better than what we are about to get given the direction of negotiations where they left off and the level of government interference.

You are 100% correct. Unfortunately it is probably too late to stop this impending train wreck. The company smells blood, the gov't wants Air Canada "solved" once and for all and the arb. will be forced to follow the guidance terms which are clearly tilted against us.