Tribunal Reverses Thwaites Decision, Upholds Complaints

[Raymond Hall]

The CHRT today released its decision on the issue of whether the Federal Court decision in the Vilven-Kelly proceeding is binding upon the Tribunal.

It found that the decision is binding, that the termination of employment of the 70 Complainants was a discriminatory practice due to the fact that the mandatory retirement exemption in the CHRA is of not available, and therefore that the mandatory retirement provision of the Air Canada-ACPA collective agreement was in violation of the CHRA.

I have posted the decision on the Fly Past 60 web site: http://www.flypast60.com/Documents/2012CHRT9.pdf

[Rockie]

This decision should come as no surprise to anyone. But I implore the pilot group to not let it distract us from the primary task at hand. Saving this airline from its management.

[Rotten Apple #1]

Congratulations Raymond, et al.

[Mechanic787]

I have a number of questions about the implications of today's decision...

1. If the Tribunal is bound by the prior decision of the Federal Court for all complainants after Vilven and Kelly, to find that the terminations are contrary to law, are Air Canada and ACPA not similarly bound? Why have they not stopped terminating employment on the basis of age after the release of the Federal Court's decision on which this decision is based, over 14 months ago? Are they going to stop terminating pilots' employment now?

2. What is the downside liability of their decisions, so far? How many are waiting for their turn before the Tribunal, and how much will eventually be paid to them, per individual, given the 14+ months since the Federal Court precedent?

3. What is the status of the outstanding judicial reviews that were put on hold pending the release of the final Thwaites decision? Do they now come forward for hearing?

[WF9F]

Should try and get them immediately so then they can take a 25% cut in pension when FOS gats rammed up or down, take your pick.
What a group of winners. Come back to work to take a cut in Pension,brilliant.

[morefun]

Nice work Raymond, but I suspect ACPA will fight it till the better end. I think the company will use this ruling to further split the pilots.....it's time to accept the inevitable and move on being a united ACPA.....ya right what was I thinking

[Johnny Mapleleaf]

OK ACPA. Enough. It's over. Its time to mend the fences, do whatever it takes to get out of this travesty with dignity, stop dividing the troops, settle the outstanding issues, and move forward cohesively as one united group.

Get with the program. Make all this sh*t go away. Bite the bullet, stop living in the past, and move on! Your membership's interest is in your hands. Focus on what is important, like our future, for example, instead of fighting a battle in the courts that we cannot win in the long run and that keeps us divided as a group, instead of united against the employer that is out to do away with our jobs!

[Morry Bund]

2. What is the downside liability of their decisions, so far? How many are waiting for their turn before the Tribunal, and how much will eventually be paid to them, per individual, given the 14+ months since the Federal Court precedent?

I can weigh in on this question. Let's make some conservative (small-c, no pun intended) assumptions. According to Air Canada's own expert witness at the Tribunal, $10,000 per month, per pilot, is the appropriate amount of damages, being the difference between the salary and the pension. That amount was actually paid to Vilven and Kelly. Let's assume 14 months. $140,000, less mitigation for those who found alternate employment. Say $100,000 per pilot, on average. 70 x $100,000 = $7 million, divided by 2 for AC and ACPA. $3.5 million for the employer, $3.5 million for the union.

That number is just for the Thwaites complainants, as few of them will be returning to work, given their current age.

But there are approximately another 100 in the queue, with another bunch added each month. That is an additional $10 million, minimum, assuming that the damages are payable as of today. If it takes another six months to finish this before the final bill comes in, add another $6 million. Total: $7 million plus $16 million = $23 million total, divided by 2 for each party. Not pretty.

Enough already?

[SilentMajority]

Morry Bund....I believe your projections could be conservative.

During The V-K hearings it is my understanding that the company, while claiming no wrong doing, offered in the alternative 24 months as a reasonable time frame for a payout. Recall as well that in addition to the payout, they also offered both pilots their jobs back. To attempt to reposition the current number of senior pilots back into the roster would be all but impossible. The clock started ticking in September 2009...

If the above turns out to be the case (with 150+ pilots in the queue)....the costs could be staggering.

[rudder]

2012 is shaping up as annus horribilis for ACPA. How much of it was self-inflicted?

[SilentMajority]

2012 is shaping up as annus horribilis for ACPA. How much of it was self-inflicted?

Unfortunately, all of it.

[biatch]

Yup, every last little bit of it. And now the proverbial sh$t hawks are flying in low and about to circle.