Anything Positive about a low cost?

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props ahead
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Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by props ahead »

Since a low cost carrier is imminent for our national carrier to remain competitive and stand a chance to compete against other airlines in Canada, does anyone see anything positive about the changes? Despite speculation and not knowing the exact direction it will take (777, EMB, asian, european) is there ANYTHING positive we can focus on?
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Rockie
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by Rockie »

Since Rovinescu's plan is to outsource the jobs out of the country it's impossible to see anything positive in this unless your name is Rovinescu, Dee, or Milton.

Even Harper would see how bad this is if it weren't for his brainlessly ideological hatred of Canadian labour.
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FICU
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by FICU »

I positively won't be flying on an offshore Asian crewed low cost airline with "Air Canada" on the tube.
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becks
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by becks »

How can there be a positive?

- Canadian jobs shipped offshore
- Canadian rights to oppose said jobs been shipped offshore - revoked
- Canadians making less money to do same job while Exec's make absurd wages

OR...I can take a look on the positive side of things " Oh please Mr. Rovinescu let me fly that shiny new 787! I'll do it for Embraer wages and don't even want a pension! As long as I get your table scraps I will be happy!" :roll:

Union busting 101
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ogopogo
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by ogopogo »

I positively won't be flying on an offshore Asian crewed low cost airline with "Air Canada" on the tube.

You might if the fare is really cheap.

Oh please Mr. Rovinescu let me fly that shiny new 787! I'll do it for Embraer wages and don't even want a pension!

What does the size of aircraft have to do with it? Is a B-787 harder to fly than an EMB?? Aren't the same basic skills required?

And BTW, considerably less than half of Canadian workers have access to a DB pension plan, or any kind of plan for that matter.

Wake up.
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justwork
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by justwork »

What does the size of aircraft have to do with it? Is a B-787 harder to fly than an EMB?? Aren't the same basic skills required?
You're right. A 787 FO deserves $38K a year. Now where is the slow clap emoticon?
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ogopogo
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by ogopogo »

justwork wrote:
What does the size of aircraft have to do with it? Is a B-787 harder to fly than an EMB?? Aren't the same basic skills required?
You're right. A 787 FO deserves $38K a year. Now where is the slow clap emoticon?
I didn't mention numbers -- all I asked was 'what difference does the type of plane make??'

I agree that $38K is pathetic.
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heavyjet
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by heavyjet »

I didn't mention numbers -- all I asked was 'what difference does the type of plane make??'

I agree that $38K is pathetic.



I am againt shipping canadian jobs offshore but would you fly a B787 for 48K?
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ogopogo
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by ogopogo »

would you fly a B787 for 48K?

I sure would if I was 25 or 30 and was passionate about flying jets. For someone just starting out, that's a decent wage, isn't it? Like I said, what's the type of plane got to do with it?
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Legacy
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by Legacy »

Can someone find where ogopgo lives and beat his ass senseless please?
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justwork
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by justwork »

ogopogo wrote:would you fly a B787 for 48K?

I sure would if I was 25 or 30 and was passionate about flying jets. For someone just starting out, that's a decent wage, isn't it? Like I said, what's the type of plane got to do with it?
This one statement sums up the entire problem with aviation in North American. Ogopogo, if you were 25, and a company offered you $50K a year to fly the worlds newest and most state of the art airplane how could you ever make more money? Said company wont pay you a cent more, because there will be ogopogo jr, nipping at your heals saying he'll take your spot for $45K... Then JR JR saying he'll do it for $40K.... Before you know it, you're working for Air Canada making $38K and having your job threatened by someone over seas.

Your logic is wrong.
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becks
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by becks »

no ogopogo, it is you who needs to wake up.

Look around Canada and tell me who has the majority of DB pensions. Government and Executives! and they don't even need to put in a full career to earn them! So pensions are only good enough for the rich?

Come on man, CEO's absolutely love guys like you. No fight, No questions asked, just do the work as long as they don't take it away.

And on a side note for all you 25yr olds who would love to fly a shiny jet for cheap, eventually...you too will turn 40, then 50, then 60.
So 36K a year may not sound that bad but what about when your 40 and all your friends have: Savings accounts, funded RESP's for their children,as well as nice homes that are nearly paid off. Well, I guess you can still say "I fly jets" from your 1 bedroom apartment while you eat your Kraft Dinner.

But who knows, another 10 years and the airline job could be your first stepping stone in aviation. CR would sure like it that way.
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TheSuit
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by TheSuit »

This problem has been solved by every other major specialized profession for decades, pilots just can't seem to get it figured out though....
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Rockie
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by Rockie »

ogopogo wrote:What does the size of aircraft have to do with it? Is a B-787 harder to fly than an EMB?? Aren't the same basic skills required?
Flying a B787 requires the same basic skills as a Piper Cherokee or Cessna 152. It's the knowledge, experience and aircraft specific training that's different. That is particularly true when you occupy the left seat. Given that a large transport category aircraft is an asset worth hundreds of millions of dollars that carries hundreds of people, smart companies demand a certain level of training, expertise and experience before putting someone in command of them. Dumb companies don't see the value in that. Are you a pilot?
ogopogo wrote:
And BTW, considerably less than half of Canadian workers have access to a DB pension plan, or any kind of plan for that matter.
I don't understand your point here, are you suggesting nobody should have a DB pension then?
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FlyFlyAway
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by FlyFlyAway »

tt
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Last edited by FlyFlyAway on Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

FICU
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by FICU »

ogopogo wrote:I positively won't be flying on an offshore Asian crewed low cost airline with "Air Canada" on the tube.

You might if the fare is really cheap.
Not a freaking chance!
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RudderWhat
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by RudderWhat »

props ahead wrote:Since a low cost carrier is imminent for our national carrier to remain competitive and stand a chance to compete against other airlines in Canada...
The article in the G&M stated that it would be YVR based and fly to Asia. Not much competition on those routes from within Canada. Further, does anyone really think that a LCC will allow them to be any more competitive than they currently are? Probably not much.
Rockie wrote:Since Rovinescu's plan is to outsource the jobs out of the country it's impossible to see anything positive in this unless your name is Rovinescu, Dee, or Milton.

Even Harper would see how bad this is if it weren't for his brainlessly ideological hatred of Canadian labour.
Bingo!
ogopogo wrote: What does the size of aircraft have to do with it? Is a B-787 harder to fly than an EMB?? Aren't the same basic skills required?

And BTW, considerably less than half of Canadian workers have access to a DB pension plan, or any kind of plan for that matter.
Consider the market and what it generally pays for a 787 pilot vs. an EMB pilot. Yes, same basic skills. But the same reason a Cheyenne pays more than a Seminole, a 737 pays more than a Citation, and ... you get the idea.

I agree with you on the pensions, but don't try to give me nothing for something.


My big, somewhat rhetorical question in all of this is:
If this alleged LWC has any regional flying associated with it, where are they going to find crews to pay less than current narrow-body pilots at AC? Has anyone seen the packages for contract pilots in Asia recently? Assuming they don't want to have burning holes in the ground on a regular basis.
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c170b53
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by c170b53 »

Just more employment for janitors when they move on to their next distraction.
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HighT5
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by HighT5 »

becks wrote: And on a side note for all you 25yr olds who would love to fly a shiny jet for cheap, eventually...you too will turn 40, then 50, then 60.

So 36K a year may not sound that bad but what about when your 40 and all your friends have: Savings accounts, funded RESP's for their children,as well as nice homes that are nearly paid off. Well, I guess you can still say "I fly jets" from your 1 bedroom apartment while you eat your Kraft Dinner.
From what I've seen, mommy and daddy support a lot of these kids financially. They don't care about the wages as much as they do about wearing the uniform and flying something bigger than their classmates. They also have really nice cars and decent houses in Toronto after being class 4 instructors and co-pilots on PC12s for most of their careers. They don't care about pensions and benefits because their parents will always give them what they need. These are the ones to look out for.
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rudder
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by rudder »

Like it or not, it is the 25 year olds that are lined up to get on at AC. And AC seems more than happy to hire them since as you say they have low financial needs unlike older pilots with families.
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DrBoeing
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by DrBoeing »

Legacy wrote:Can someone find where ogopgo lives and beat his ass senseless please?
Corporate headquarters Dorval Quebec skimming from the trough like the rest of the execs and upper management
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by DrBoeing »

TheSuit wrote:This problem has been solved by every other major specialized profession for decades, pilots just can't seem to get it figured out though....
Nor can suits :finga:
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becks
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by becks »

DrBoeing wrote:
TheSuit wrote:This problem has been solved by every other major specialized profession for decades, pilots just can't seem to get it figured out though....
Nor can suits :finga:
+ 3000
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Wacko
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by Wacko »

Legacy wrote:Can someone find where ogopgo lives and beat his ass senseless please?
Take my comment for what it is.. a comment BUT

How many of you higher time 3000+ hour guys have gone to a local flight school and talked to the CPL's and Instructors... helped guide them, be a mentor.

Although I do agree that there are kids with bottomless pits for parents who will chase metal no matter what you do or say MOST will take a low paying job because it's their first job period and they don't know any better. To go from paying for flying to 20K/year is a bonus regardless of the size of aircraft.

This comes up on the forum every once in a while. The guys sitting in their glass offices at FL250+ talking down to low time guys yet they do NOTHING to help make this industry and the kids starting out more professional.

:smt041 :smt038

As for the low cost... of course it's going to succeed (if it happens)... the general public is nothing more than cattle and will ALWAYS chose to pay less and bitch about service.
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Norwegianwood
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Re: Anything Positive about a low cost?

Post by Norwegianwood »

Wacko wrote: As for the low cost... of course it's going to succeed (if it happens)... the general public is nothing more than cattle and will ALWAYS chose to pay less and bitch about service.
Stand in line for the "free for all" boarding on any Ryan Air flight anywhere in Europe and you will hear about the airline the "general public" love to bitch about but will cattle on to just because of the Lo Cost of getting there
.......... and RA still makes a profit!!
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