New Contract thread

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tallyho
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New Contract thread

Post by tallyho »

Sooooo.....

What happened to the thread about the new contract? Air Canada is hiring 20 people a month so interviewing at least double that. I'd imagine there is a lot of interest in this topic.

My two biggest questions about it are, what happens to pay after year 4 and how secure is a job at AC if you start now?
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Rockie
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Re: New Contract thread

Post by Rockie »

tallyho wrote: what happens to pay after year 4
All aircraft are now on formula pay except the specific LCC rates, so my understanding is that after year four you would be on formula pay.
tallyho wrote:how secure is a job at AC if you start now?
That's the million dollar question that no one can answer. The company spent hours yesterday blowing sunshine up everybody's skirts, but Rovinescu is a publicly avowed fan of Jetstar and he now has Harper's deputy COS as a senior vice president.

You decide.
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avmca2050
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Re: New Contract thread

Post by avmca2050 »

tallyho wrote:Sooooo.....

What happened to the thread about the new contract?
My guess is either ACPA and/or AC complained and they have to close the thread.
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scopiton
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Re: New Contract thread

Post by scopiton »

what happens to pay after year 4
could someone provide some numbers please, because they went away with the previous thread...

another question : will the bottom part of the pilots be obliged to follow their aircraft type to the LCC with a new contract, or will they stay at AC ?
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DHC-1 Jockey
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Re: New Contract thread

Post by DHC-1 Jockey »

Yes, I'd like to know what happened to the old thread as well. While this is specifically affecting AC directly, as a Jazz employee my future is connected to this decision. There was some pretty good information coming out. Why stop that?
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Jimmy_Hoffa
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Re: New Contract thread

Post by Jimmy_Hoffa »

So after effectively removing the constitutional right to collectively bargain, they are going after free speech on the internet too? Why remove the thread? Far worse threads of personal slander and whorish industry gossip have been left alone in the past. Why the change of heart?
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conehead
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Re: New Contract thread

Post by conehead »

Count me in as one of those opposed to censureship!!! :x
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Norwegianwood
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Re: New Contract thread

Post by Norwegianwood »

My mother always said "Because the truth really hurts", the big wigs don't like the talk so had the thread removed...........
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turbo-beaver
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Re: New Contract thread

Post by turbo-beaver »

Air Canada Final Offer Highlights

• TA1 minus major new concessions worth $165 million

Scope
• Most provisions mirror TA1
• New sections forecast reduction or elimination of Embraer fleet – 60 planes, 643 jobs
• Guarantee to operate at least 60 EMJ removed
• Removes guarantee to grow Embraer fleet to match CPA growth
• Removes guarantee to shrink CPA fleet with Embraer mainline shrinkage
• Section added to “mitigate the effects for the Air Canada Pilots who may be adversely affected by changes being considered which could reduce the number of Embraer aircraft.”

• Junior pilots equal to number of EMJ pilots on July 31, 2012 protected from furlough (estimate 643 jobs)

• Protection “will not apply in the case of a reduction in the Embraer fleet due to adverse economic circumstances which also requires a reduction of flying hours or a reduction of other aircraft types operated by Air Canada.”

• Forecasts outsourcing of Domestic and Transborder flying to other carriers

• Codesharing with Tier 2 CPA Carriers permitted

• Codesharing with Tier 2 Carriers allowed on Transborder routes

• Transborder Joint Venture allowed with United/Continental

• Removes section from TA1 stating that Air Canada will grow its Domestic and Transborder flying and MJA or NJA flying “at least equitably for the growth of flying that is subcontracts to CPA carriers.”

• Removes guarantee to operate at least 86 A319/320/321 aircraft – 40 planes, 473 jobs at risk

• CPA carriers allowed to operate up to 60 MJA with up to 76 seats

• Allows AC to reduce Airbus fleet or equivalent by 2 NJA for every 1 WJA added to the fleet

• 100 planes and associated jobs in narrow body fleet at risk


Scheduling
• Removes Multi-Month Blocking

Pay Groupings
• Eliminated
• EMJ removed from Position Group

Term
• Five years
• Expires April 1, 2016

Pay Increases
• April 1, 2011 2%
• August 1, 2012 5%
• April 2, 2013 3%
• April 2, 2014 2%
• April 2, 2015 2%

Expenses
• Meal allowances increased, but calculations changed for international
• Incidental expense removed
• Cash for meals removed
• No meals provided for pilots on PIT course

Course Rights
• New Restrictions
• New hires have one restricted course right (within Group – WC, NC, WF, NF, RP)
• New hires have one unrestricted course right (to any position)
• One additional unrestricted course right after 15 and 25 years of service

Low Cost Carrier
• Terms same as TA1, but no blended rates associated with pay groupings
• Pay increases annually on August 1 at same rate as mainline

CARs
• Support relaxation of “10 Hour Rule”

Age 60
• Pilots cannot bid wide body FO after reaching age 60
• Can remain as Captains until age 65
• After reaching age 65, pilots can only bid RP or narrow body FO
• Company can replace one pilot if both scheduled are age 60 or older
• Rules change if ICAO Standards change
• Pilots bidding to a lower-paying position paid at lower rate
• Pilots changing position to continue flying past age 60 or 65 can bump more junior pilots
• Freeze may apply to pilots 12 – 30 months from age 60 or 65, with pay protection
• Pilots required to provide 12 months notice of intent to retire
• Pilots who complete last 12 months without taking GDIP or 8+ sick days get 40 hour pay bonus
• Pilots who do not provide 12 months notice will not receive SRP for 12 months after retirement

Pension
• Concessions estimated at $556 million
• Changes effective January 1, 2014
• Member contributions increased by 1.5% of earnings
• If RPP funded below 100%, member contribution to SRP goes to RPP, Company contributes nothing to SRP
• Members working past age 60 continue to contribute to pension until retirement, 35 years service or age 71
• Early retirement eligibility raised to age 60 or 30 years service
• Unreduced pension age raised to age 65 or age 60 plus 30 years service
• Pension actuarially reduced if taken before 65 or less than 30 years service
• Terms above change to 25 years of service, if Association supports Corporation’s application for funding relief from the federal government
• Pension deferred to age 65 for pilots terminating under age 55, before eligibility for retirement
• Pilots retiring age 55 or older get immediate, reduced pension
• Additional life insurance for CAIL pilots cancelled
• DC plan for new hires, with two components
• Basic - Pilot determines contribution at 3% - 6% of earnings, Company matches
• Supplementary - Additional Company contribution after two years service:
 2 – 5 years service 37.5% of earnings
 5 or more years 75% of earnings
• Contributions capped at limits under Income Tax Act, when earnings reach $139,212
• Contributions end at 35 years of service
• Members on disability do not contribute and Company contributes 3% of earnings
• Members provided with investment options and pay for investment management
• Federal government funding relief requested January 2014 – December 2023
• Deficit payments capped at $150 million per year (ACPA support required)
• No MPU increases
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scopiton
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Re: New Contract thread

Post by scopiton »

thanks TB, it makes it way easier to grasp the big picture and near future at AC.
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truedude
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Re: New Contract thread

Post by truedude »

I am wondering if the powers that be will give us an explanation for why the original thread vanished???

As for the topic at hand, this is a sad day for Canadian aviation, as we all just took a collective step backwards.
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Sulako
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Re: New Contract thread

Post by Sulako »

The original topic has been pulled for review. It may come back once it's been reviewed.
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tallyho
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Re: New Contract thread

Post by tallyho »

So, my understanding is that if/when AC starts a LCC they could potentially lay off 1000 or so pilots from EMJ and 310/320. Or do said pilots transfer to a LCC? I also read that the LCC will have same terms and conditions as the mainline, is this correct?

What smoke did the company blow? That there wouldn't be lay offs?
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chatman
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Re: New Contract thread

Post by chatman »

tallyho wrote:So, my understanding is that if/when AC starts a LCC they could potentially lay off 1000 or so pilots from EMJ and 310/320. Or do said pilots transfer to a LCC? I also read that the LCC will have same terms and conditions as the mainline, is this correct?

What smoke did the company blow? That there wouldn't be lay offs?
It will probably be similar to what happened to ACTS employees...Several options, stick with the mainline and get laid off depending on seniorty, or go to Aveos

Here were there choices...copied from another site

1..the first of which is to stay with Air Canada, apparently anywhere within the system wherever seniority will hold, subject to the bumping and lay off rules currently in effect. These individuals will forfiet any recall to Aveos.
2..The second option is to stay directly with Aveos, if currently working in that environment....no severance, seniority as per original Air Canada date. These indiviuals will forfiet any recall to Air Canada.
3-4..The third and forth options deal with the retire/resign - rehire scenario per current pension/benifits rules, seniority date as of the date of transition(bottom of the present list) in order of present seniority, at basic catagory rate of pay (an above-basic could only come back to basic, ie LLAT would be Lat). No recall rights to Air Canada.
5...The fifth is interesting in that it appears you may chose option 1, if there is no available position at your base, opt to go to Aveos as if you chose option 2. According to the "items still to be decided", you may receive severance if the arbitrator decides in that direction(NOT LIKELY).
The sixth and seventh deal with the option for present ACM guys to retire/resign - rehire, IF Aveos decide they have room, again basic catagory pay/position, transition date seniority. No recall rights to Air Canada.
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snag
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Re: New Contract thread

Post by snag »

The EMJ is not going to the LCC, just outside of scope (outside ACPA/Mainline). Those jobs are protected by the contract.

A319/767 jobs at LCC will be flown by ACPA pilots who keep their mainline seniority number, and can bid in and out of LCC, almost as they would to any other aircraft at mainline.

Still looking into the details but it seem that although the EMJ is no longer in scope, the ASM's are, so if one goes, it would have to be replaced by something else.

Details are still coming out as things get translated from Lawyereese to Pilotish. Is there an app for that?
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yycflyguy
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Re: New Contract thread

Post by yycflyguy »

Turbo, did you ask permission from Martin to copy and paste his info?
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hithere
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Re: New Contract thread

Post by hithere »

What is MJA or NJA or WJA?
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Inverted2
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Re: New Contract thread

Post by Inverted2 »

I don't understand why the original thread was pulled. Hopefully the censors will put it back up shortly!!
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BverLuver
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Re: New Contract thread

Post by BverLuver »

To the ACPA people,

Hindsight being 20/20, what (in your control) would you have done differently between the time of TA1 to this past Monday? I don't want to hear about the government did this or the company did that, this is a legitimate question for the Union to move forward and start working and progressing toward 2016.

Do you have regrets on not accepting TA1 at this point?

Good luck to all ACPA pilots present and future.

BL
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Krashman
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Re: New Contract thread

Post by Krashman »

Its a big shame what AC has become, no longer will it be a career destination maybe a career stop now?

I hope all the best to all the pilots both junior and senior.

I hope it all works out
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