Air Canada Pool

[SeaBat]

It's a pretty strong rumour that makes sense. The company expected 120 retirements this year; there have only been 10 (more pilots want to fly beyond age 60 than expected). Aircraft courses are being cancelled with as little as a weeks notice.

If the current trend of little to no retirements persists, it looks like there will be very few newhires for the next 3 - 4 years. Sorry guys.

[SeaBat]

Looks like the rumour may be wrong. According to the GCM this afternoon, AC still plans on hiring 10 new pilots every month or second month.

[Buzz Lightyear]

May I ask what the GCM is?

Has anyone from the pool received a call for a November GS yet?

Cheers

Buzz

[pilot2121]

Got the call for medical. Wish me luck

[arcadia]

.

[yycflyguy]

May I ask what the GCM is?

Has anyone from the pool received a call for a November GS yet?

Cheers

Buzz

GCM = General Council Meeting.

My personal opinion is that hiring will fall to a trickle. Guys flying past 60 and no fleet growth will make it difficult for hiring prospects. Unless there is a radical change in the augmentation rules, as was rumoured, things will be pretty stagnant for the next 12-24 months IMO.

[groundtoflightdeck]

Disagree. .. huge growth at ACr. I would imagine hiring will be steady. But the lack of retirements is really slowing things. Its still a bubble of guys who will likely retire in the net 5 years. Im sure the company is getting anxious, they dont really want to see 400 retirements in 1 year.

[yycflyguy]

Disagree. .. huge growth at ACr. I would imagine hiring will be steady. But the lack of retirements is really slowing things. Its still a bubble of guys who will likely retire in the net 5 years. Im sure the company is getting anxious, they dont really want to see 400 retirements in 1 year.

rouge is not growth. rouge is a transfer of better paying jobs at mainline to a lower WAWCON. Same number of pilots. Same number positions. Less pay. No increase in FINs, no increase in positions.

It could be argued as a reduction in total jobs as rouge will fly to the moon and back with only 2 pilots as opposed to augmented flights at mainline.

For each pilot that stays past 60 there are significant pension solvency reductions for the corporation. They reap the benefit of guys milking the cow. Before the abolition of mandatory retirement at 60 there were over 120 retirements due for 2013. To date, less than a dozen have submitted their paperwork to retire. It wont change for a couple of years.

[groundtoflightdeck]

We'll see Tuesday I guess. But transfer or not, its would likely generate hiring, which is the focus of this thread.

[DBC]

We'll see Tuesday I guess. But transfer or not, its would likely generate hiring, which is the focus of this thread.

If they double crew some fins as they transfer them, there will be a temporary increase, but Rouge has zero reserve coverage, they fly to CARS maximums, and they do not augment flights. I don't know how you can call that grown in any capacity let alone huge growth.

[Buzz Lightyear]

Got the call for medical. Wish me luck

You got the call for a 2nd medical right? When did you interview?

Anyway, good luck!

[ratherbee]

Disagree. .. huge growth at ACr. I would imagine hiring will be steady. But the lack of retirements is really slowing things. Its still a bubble of guys who will likely retire in the net 5 years. Im sure the company is getting anxious, they dont really want to see 400 retirements in 1 year.

rouge is not growth. rouge is a transfer of better paying jobs at mainline to a lower WAWCON. Same number of pilots. Same number positions. Less pay. No increase in FINs, no increase in positions.

It could be argued as a reduction in total jobs as rouge will fly to the moon and back with only 2 pilots as opposed to augmented flights at mainline.

For each pilot that stays past 60 there are significant pension solvency reductions for the corporation. They reap the benefit of guys milking the cow. Before the abolition of mandatory retirement at 60 there were over 120 retirements due for 2013. To date, less than a dozen have submitted their paperwork to retire. It wont change for a couple of years.

As each B787 arrives one B767 will go to rouge instead of the desert. That is growth. However, that growth has been offset by the transfer of 15 E175's to SR due to ACPA's inability to avoid arbitration. The FOS required additional A319's into rouge but ACPA hasn't enforced it.

Same goes for mandatory retirement - a bad agreement is better than a good arbitration. However, we are still hiring and will likely continue for some time.

[yycflyguy]

Disagree. .. huge growth at ACr. I would imagine hiring will be steady. But the lack of retirements is really slowing things. Its still a bubble of guys who will likely retire in the net 5 years. Im sure the company is getting anxious, they dont really want to see 400 retirements in 1 year.

rouge is not growth. rouge is a transfer of better paying jobs at mainline to a lower WAWCON. Same number of pilots. Same number positions. Less pay. No increase in FINs, no increase in positions.

It could be argued as a reduction in total jobs as rouge will fly to the moon and back with only 2 pilots as opposed to augmented flights at mainline.

For each pilot that stays past 60 there are significant pension solvency reductions for the corporation. They reap the benefit of guys milking the cow. Before the abolition of mandatory retirement at 60 there were over 120 retirements due for 2013. To date, less than a dozen have submitted their paperwork to retire. It wont change for a couple of years.

As each B787 arrives one B767 will go to rouge instead of the desert. That is growth. However, that growth has been offset by the transfer of 25 E175's to SR due to ACPA's inability to avoid arbitration. The FOS required additional A319's into rouge but ACPA hasn't enforced it.

Same goes for mandatory retirement - a bad agreement is better than a good arbitration. However, we are still hiring and will likely continue for some time.

LOL. You have interesting accounting. So now transferring FINs is called growth??? Just like working more hours is a pay raise, right?

[29chev]

Small point it's 15-175's not 25

[yycflyguy]

That's a big point actually. 10 Embraers is about 50 pilot jobs.

[scopiton]

I don't know why everybody is arguing on this: fleet projection shows 207 fins in 2015, same number (-/+ 2 or 3) as today. no growth.
but anyway...

[ratherbee]

I guess we're now discussing semantics. Is it transferring or keeping the old B767's? I think everyone, well almost, would agree that it is better for pilots to keep the fins flying than to send them to the desert. So the issue then is who flies the B767's? The current pilots on the B767 will have their positions replaced one for one by the higher-paying B787's. Brand new airplane and a bigger paycheque. First year pay on rouge for a B767 Captain (with no AC left seat time) would have been $167.22/hour. Due to arbitration it is less than that. So a different demographic will and has migrated to that new position.

If the 15 E175's had not been lost through arbitration then we would be hiring like crazy. If we did not have rouge then we would be laying off by now. We're still hiring and that's what this thread is about.

[CSk3RampBOY]

I don't know why everybody is arguing on this: fleet projection shows 207 fins in 2015, same number (-/+ 2 or 3) as today. no growth.
but anyway...

That may be the case, but isn't AC increasing capacity for 2014 with the addition of wide body aircraft? Wouldn't the crew requirements for 5 77Ws & 6 787s offset the loss of the 15 embs? (Taking into the xfr of a/c to ACr of course)

[yycflyguy]

I guess we're now discussing semantics. Is it transferring or keeping the old B767's? I think everyone, well almost, would agree that it is better for pilots to keep the fins flying than to send them to the desert. So the issue then is who flies the B767's? The current pilots on the B767 will have their positions replaced one for one by the higher-paying B787's. Brand new airplane and a bigger paycheque. First year pay on rouge for a B767 Captain (with no AC left seat time) would have been $167.22/hour. Due to arbitration it is less than that. So a different demographic will and has migrated to that new position.

If the 15 E175's had not been lost through arbitration then we would be hiring like crazy. If we did not have rouge then we would be laying off by now. We're still hiring and that's what this thread is about.

Your comment about new airplane with bigger pay is totally misleading. It is a slight increase for Captains only. FOs who were "grandfathered" at the old rates and then either bid or are reduced onto the B787 will be paid the same as the old grandfathered rates. No pay increase (but you're right, it is a shiny new plane ). Under TA1 It was even worse for new hire RPs who used to face 2 years of flat pay and now face 4 thanks to the architects of TA1. They took abysmal pay for new hires and made it worse to protect those Captains on the B767 and B777 who can now bid the B787 for more money. Everyone else took a cut for them. Once again. Well done.

[Ah_yeah]

Lol ratherbee...you must have majored in "revisionist history". I guess it's easy to hide behind an alias on this board and try to denigrate ACPA in the process in front of people not "in the know".
News flash: Except for a handful of true believers, most Air Canada pilots know that an incompetant and selve-serving NC1, aided and abetted by a select few high ranking union officials, destroyed any chance we had of a good contract. Their ilk stole from the junior and FO's to featherbed themselves. Shame on them.
Stop spreading lies. Air Canada's potential new hires deserve better.